Forum Home » Sound Reinforcement » The Basement » Soldering Iron
|
| Re: Soldering Iron [message #319714 is a reply to message #319710 ] |
Mon, 05 May 2008 15:35   |
 |
Andy Peters
Messages: 5810
Registered: April 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ |
Has No Life
Contrarian |
|
|
| Moby (Mike Diack) wrote on Mon, 05 May 2008 13:28 |
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I need to get a better soldering iron, Extracating destroyed output Fets out of munted Crown i-Techs (something I do rather a lot of) is a right royal sod of a job because of the huge heat sinking ability of the 4 layer ground planed board, Even preheating the area with a paint stripper and attacking it with a Weller WTCP in each hand it still aint easy. I have heard good things about Metcal, but the price of entry here is way high over here, so that leaves the vast offerings on Ebay.
Q1 : Is the Metcal up to this kind of job (it looks kinda delicate from the pix)
Q2 : If so, what model numbers (controller/wand/tip etc) should I go for.
Q3 : If not, what alternatives should I look at.
|
For serious rework you want the Metcal MX500.
The thing will pay for itself the first time you don't destroy an amplifier PCB trying to remove dead parts.
-a
"Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice."
"Your band isn't good enough for my PA."
"On the Internet, nobody can hear you mix a band."
|
|
| |
| Re: Soldering Iron [message #319731 is a reply to message #319710 ] |
Mon, 05 May 2008 16:14 |
 SteveKirby
Messages: 1135
Registered: October 2007
Location: Santa Cruz |
Has No Life |
|
|
Another big vote for Metcal. This is my day job, electronics assembly engineering. I've done beta testing and worked with Metcal on a few projects as a customer/end user in years past. I have no formal relationship with them and don't represent them in any way.
Don't let the size fool you. The Metcal temperature control works on an entirely unique principal. Whereas most soldering irons need some thermal mass to make up for the transient loss when contacting the solderjoint, and until the thermocouple can react and raise the voltage to the tip. Metcals kind of work on something like the inverse to the power compression many of us are familiar with. Things change resistance with temperature. The Metcal sets up this power equilibrium at a given temperature. It is self limiting, the current draw is dependent on the temperature of the tip. The instant the temperature drops, the current goes up and the temperature is maintained. This happens right in the metallurgy of the tip. There is not remote sensing or other crowbar mechanisms.
You need enough tip "area" to effect a good heat transfer. It is not the tip mass that matters, but the ability to transfer the heat. The system will supply the heat, you just need to get it into the solderjoint. So, for a higher thermal mass solderjoint, you want to get the iron's output into the mass quickly. The great thing is that you won't overheat a small thermal mass joint with the same system.
The upshot of this is that the kit is fairly expensive. You really want to take care of your tips. Re-tin them constantly and always tin them before turning the iron off.
But it is really worth it in terms of the quality of the soldering you get. Even though I created some of the SMT pictorials for the military soldering standards, I don't have an iron in my hand 8 hours a day. And without the Metcal, it would have been much harder to get a Mil-Std-2000 soldering certification.
|
|
|
| Re: Soldering Iron [message #319838 is a reply to message #319710 ] |
Mon, 05 May 2008 21:11 |
David Buckley
Messages: 480
Registered: January 2005
Location: New Zealand |
Has No Life |
|
|
| Moby (Mike Diack) wrote on Tue, 06 May 2008 08:28 |
I have heard good things about Metcal, but the price of entry here is way high over here, so that leaves the vast offerings on Ebay.
|
I've got the "entry level" Metcal, the SP-200, and if you're ever near North Canterbury you're welcome to try it and see how you find it, but be warned, once tried.... The difference between Metcal and all hobbyist and pretty much all professional irons is chalk and cheese.
Also, a quick google found a posting from (I presume) you about the Wireless World pitch shifter feedback reducer: I've not only got the article, if you're still looking, but still have the one I built!!!
|
|
|
| Re: Soldering Iron [message #319989 is a reply to message #319838 ] |
Tue, 06 May 2008 08:26 |
Mike {AB} Butler
Messages: 1711
Registered: April 2004
Location: Lynchburg, VA |
Has No Life |
|
|
Agree David, the SP-200 is just fine. Having bought as many as I have (more than 10 over the years), I think that product is great. I think the reason Andy recommends the bigger unit is that you can have 2 different pencils.. and quickly switch between them.. Highly effective for the servicing the OP will be doing.. going from fine traces all the way up to the huge heat sinks of the giant leads and traces. Steve, you put better into words what I was trying to say: surface area is Quintessential for good heat transfer!
Regards,
Mike Butler
|
|
| |
| Re: Soldering Iron [message #320075 is a reply to message #320057 ] |
Tue, 06 May 2008 12:50 |
Mike {AB} Butler
Messages: 1711
Registered: April 2004
Location: Lynchburg, VA |
Has No Life |
|
|
| SteveKirby wrote on Tue, 06 May 2008 13:06 |
While I would take the SP200 over any other iron, if you can manage it at all, try to get the MX500. Like going from mid range stuff to Nexo. There is still a difference and it makes life easier.
Plus, if you ever have to deal with SMT parts on boards, I can't recommend the tweezer handpiece enough.
Of course if you get to large DSP chips, that is a whole nother can of worms. I tend to be an AirVac man, but that is an investment you probably don't want to get into.
|
Steve,
Whatsa matter? Don't like putting BGA's onto boards with heatguns over the top and bottom of the board? 
I had to do it once twice when the engineering team was rabid to start product verifications, and wasn't willing to wait for me to drive over to Sonic (chip product). 
I agree that there are several products I couldn't live without. The Hakko 850D has been a welcome partner in my lab for years..
Tweezers? Nahhh, that's for sissies!  You should be able to get up to a CR1204 off with just a single iron.. and NO cheating with Solderwick.. 
I agree, though, that the MX500 is money well spent for someone in the production and repair biz, or anyone who needs a instant "tip change"..
Regards,
Mike Butler
|
|
| |
| Re: Soldering Iron [message #320203 is a reply to message #319989 ] |
Tue, 06 May 2008 17:35 |
|
Andy Peters
Messages: 5810
Registered: April 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ |
Has No Life
Contrarian |
|
|
| Mike {AB} Butler wrote on Tue, 06 May 2008 06:26 |
Agree David, the SP-200 is just fine. Having bought as many as I have (more than 10 over the years), I think that product is great. I think the reason Andy recommends the bigger unit is that you can have 2 different pencils.. and quickly switch between them.. Highly effective for the servicing the OP will be doing.. going from fine traces all the way up to the huge heat sinks of the giant leads and traces. Steve, you put better into words what I was trying to say: surface area is Quintessential for good heat transfer!
|
I own an SP-200 (and yes, I took it on tour a couple of years ago), and the reason I recommended the MX-500 was, in addition to the dual-handle capability, is that it has a greater selection of tips than what's available for the SP-200.
-a
"Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice."
"Your band isn't good enough for my PA."
"On the Internet, nobody can hear you mix a band."
|
|
|
| Re: Soldering Iron [message #320207 is a reply to message #320203 ] |
Tue, 06 May 2008 17:41 |
 |
Mac Kerr
Messages: 5822
Registered: April 2004
Location: Westchester County, NY |
Has No Life |
|
|
| Andy Peters wrote on Tue, 06 May 2008 18:35 |
| Mike {AB} Butler wrote on Tue, 06 May 2008 06:26 |
Agree David, the SP-200 is just fine. Having bought as many as I have (more than 10 over the years), I think that product is great. I think the reason Andy recommends the bigger unit is that you can have 2 different pencils.. and quickly switch between them.. Highly effective for the servicing the OP will be doing.. going from fine traces all the way up to the huge heat sinks of the giant leads and traces. Steve, you put better into words what I was trying to say: surface area is Quintessential for good heat transfer!
|
I own an SP-200 (and yes, I took it on tour a couple of years ago), and the reason I recommended the MX-500 was, in addition to the dual-handle capability, is that it has a greater selection of tips than what's available for the SP-200.
-a
|
jeez, you guys need to get out more. 
There's more to life than soldering stations. Of course soldering stations don't try to make you feel guilty in the morning.
Mac
|
|
|
| Re: Soldering Iron [message #320210 is a reply to message #320207 ] |
Tue, 06 May 2008 17:52 |
|
Andy Peters
Messages: 5810
Registered: April 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ |
Has No Life
Contrarian |
|
|
| Mac Kerr wrote on Tue, 06 May 2008 15:41 |
| Andy Peters wrote on Tue, 06 May 2008 18:35 |
| Mike {AB} Butler wrote on Tue, 06 May 2008 06:26 |
Agree David, the SP-200 is just fine. Having bought as many as I have (more than 10 over the years), I think that product is great. I think the reason Andy recommends the bigger unit is that you can have 2 different pencils.. and quickly switch between them.. Highly effective for the servicing the OP will be doing.. going from fine traces all the way up to the huge heat sinks of the giant leads and traces. Steve, you put better into words what I was trying to say: surface area is Quintessential for good heat transfer!
|
I own an SP-200 (and yes, I took it on tour a couple of years ago), and the reason I recommended the MX-500 was, in addition to the dual-handle capability, is that it has a greater selection of tips than what's available for the SP-200.
-a
|
jeez, you guys need to get out more.
There's more to life than soldering stations. Of course soldering stations don't try to make you feel guilty in the morning.
|
You're just jealous 
-a
"Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice."
"Your band isn't good enough for my PA."
"On the Internet, nobody can hear you mix a band."
|
|
| | |
| Re: Soldering Iron [message #320292 is a reply to message #320203 ] |
Tue, 06 May 2008 21:41 |
David Buckley
Messages: 480
Registered: January 2005
Location: New Zealand |
Has No Life |
|
|
| Andy Peters wrote on Wed, 07 May 2008 10:35 |
I own an SP-200 (and yes, I took it on tour a couple of years ago), and the reason I recommended the MX-500 was, in addition to the dual-handle capability, is that it has a greater selection of tips than what's available for the SP-200.
|
No disagreement with anything there, but I suspect Metcals are a bit rare in NZ and thought the OP might like to sample the forbidden fruit, and will then understand why he has to save up for the right tool for the job.
I'm just a dabbler (albeit a fairly serious one) and will not be tackling BGA any time soon; heck, I regard SMT as "too hard", which I guess by the standards of some here makes me a wuss
Edited to add: and no-one picked up on Moby's use of the term "munted", a wonderful NZ word...
[Updated on: Tue, 06 May 2008 21:42]
|
|
| |
| Pages (3): [1 ] |
  |
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Thu May 22 14:57:55 CDT 2008
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01622 seconds |
Forum Home
Login
Forum Search
Register
FAQ
