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| JTR Growler Subs [message #198995] |
Sun, 25 March 2007 15:40  |
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 Mike Christy
Messages: 540
Registered: February 2007
Location: Southern Maine |
Has No Life |
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I took kind of a chance. And it paid off. I am not normally one to take risks or chances, especially when it comes to spending $1800 on a pair of speakers that I haven't even heard. But after pestering and emailing Jeff Permanian with too many emails to count, asking spec questions, asking measurement questions, asking design questions, asking stupid questions, I purchased 2 JTR Growler subs, sight and sound, unseen and unheard.
All I can say is WOW. I am blown away by their output and quality for such a small box. If you have any doubt about Jeff and his speakers, put it to rest. These subs are world class. They are small, they are efficient, they are loud, round, full, punchy. They are what a sub should be. There's a reason why many other subs cost less ( I'll leave out the manufacture names, you know who they are ), basically you get what you pay for, and the JTR Growlers are a wicked deal - they could cost more IMHO. I initially thought Id buy 2, then down the road 2 more, well... I don't think Ill need two more.
My first gig with them was a bass-demanding hip-hop show. You know that 40Hz ringing bass stuff - boingy bass I call it. Well there was plenty of that. My set up was:
RMX1450 #1 tops bridged mono left side, 900W
RMX1450 #2 tops bridged mono right side, 900W
RMX2450 #1 Growler #1 bridged mono, 1500W
RMX2450 #2 Growler #2 bridged mono, 1500W
Processing : Rane 2way xover (mono sub out, <100hz), Symetrix comp/limiter, Rane EQ. Studiomaster board.
The Growlers were clustered in the center of the stage, exactly 8' from a wall on the left and right side (no cancellations). There was no boundary behind them as the stage was only 8" tall.
The Growlers are very efficient, as most folded horns are. Even though I had my gain structure set up correctly, I had to significantly scale back my sub drive as it was over powering my top boxes. To correlate this fact further, at the end of the evening, when shutting down the amps, the 2 1450s were blowing warm air, while the 2 2450s were as cool as a cucumber - not even working. But the bass output was so marvelous.
I mixed to a very modest level, I measured conservatively an average +106db back at the board (Jeff says +115 db is very doable) , but I was trying to be very cautious since this was my first time out with the Growlers. My sub amps were idling the entire night. I kept my board output level -10db below peak levels all night long, and that's with the gain structure nuts on from the board to the amp. That shows how much reserve was left in the system, but it was still filling the room with quality lows and good his/mids. Walking around the room there was fullness everywhere, no dead spots, and when they were 10 deep at the stage, absolutely no reduction in sub SPL.
The cabinets came very well packed in thick hardboard insulation. I wasn't sure Id like the line-x coating, but it is a great idea. The next thing I need to do is print up DO NOT STEP signs and place them on the cabs, as the talent automatically tried to use them as an extra stage.
If anyone is debating the purchase of new subs, I highly recommend looking into the JTRs. I was on the fence, I had doubts, I wasn't sure if I should believe the shootout and the specs. I think the speakers are better than the specs. Feeling that power bass in the chest was awesome. I cant wait for the next gig to blow people way...
Happy Camper - Mike
I just wanted to add to this: A big thank you to all the guys and vendors that put together the sub shootout. I believe there must have been sacrifices, and volunteering involved, and it is all appreciated. Everyone who contributed played a key role in helping to clarify what top subs are available and what their relative performance is.
[Updated on: Thu, 19 April 2007 10:49]
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| Re: JTR Growler Subs [message #199072 is a reply to message #198995 ] |
Sun, 25 March 2007 21:30  |
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Tony "T" Tissot
Messages: 2226
Registered: June 2006
Location: Northern California |
Has No Life |
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Mike -
Thanks for the mini-review.
(This may be a bit of a silly question - and the arrangement would violate the "rule" of mixing horn and vented together):
Did you ever get a chance to run your rig with the growlers and your "old" (assuming you had vented cabs) subs running at the same time?
I am looking at 2 to 4 of these as well just for an aux-fed channel, and have not had the opportunity for a good listen. (although that part does not frighten me, as I bought what has proven over 3 years to be a superbly perfect ISP 4-way rig without the luxury of an in-depth listen in advance).
I am consciously trying to build a low-bass "power alley" down the center for the mid-sized outdoor festivals I do.
ProSoundWeb - Home of 50,000 audio professionals - and two or three curmudgeonly SOBs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdGrvXykjDU
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| Re: JTR Growler Subs [message #199111 is a reply to message #199072 ] |
Mon, 26 March 2007 00:29 |
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Jeff Permanian
Messages: 148
Registered: November 2006
Location: Chicago IL. |
Has No Life |
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There are several problems with mixing subs that would consume lots of processing power and time caliberating. The two easiest things to try are:
1)group the horn subs in the center and position the vented subs on the sides.
2)group the horn subs in the center and the vented subs about 6ft away either side.
Both will create a power alley however will probably cause interference.
[Updated on: Tue, 27 March 2007 10:17]
JTR Speakers Inc.
847-714-6878
Jeff@JTRspeakers.com
http://www.JTRspeakers.com
http://www.myspace.com/jtrspeakers
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| Re: JTR Growler Subs [message #200242 is a reply to message #199136 ] |
Fri, 30 March 2007 00:10 |
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Steve Hurt
Messages: 871
Registered: April 2004
Location: Indianapolis |
Has No Life |
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What were your old subs?
Thinking about UCS1's
Have any idea how they would compare to the growlers?
<edit spel-chek>
[Updated on: Fri, 30 March 2007 00:11]
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| Re: JTR Growler Subs [message #200351 is a reply to message #200242 ] |
Fri, 30 March 2007 11:06 |
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Mike Christy
Messages: 540
Registered: February 2007
Location: Southern Maine |
Has No Life |
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Steve,
I looked very closely at the UCS1s, the LS808s, the LA400s, the LS1008s, the Bill Fitz designs, I tried to investigate all cabinets in my price, performance and "size" range. I corresponded with members of PSW, read reviews, emailed with many end sellers of subs, and the JTRs fit my needs more than the others, on paper. It wasn't until I powered them up did I know that I had made a good decision.
With that said, the UCS1s may fit your application, but my observations on them (others opinions) are they are not as loud as other designs. And I am seeing used ones available now, I don't know what that means. Everyone says they go low, 37Hz, but I understand that you hear the harmonics just as much, so that one spec was not enough to sell me on them. This is just my opinion, and feelings. Yours may be different. Ive never heard a UCS1, they may be killer, I don't know.
I previously had 4 18" EV "subs", bandpass boxes. Fine for DJing work, but not rock or hiphop. They did fine by me, but the JTRs made so much more sense for me.
Pisces Sound
Seacoast New Hampshire
Southern Maine
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| Re: JTR Growler Subs [message #200510 is a reply to message #200382 ] |
Sat, 31 March 2007 02:53 |
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Steve Hurt
Messages: 871
Registered: April 2004
Location: Indianapolis |
Has No Life |
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Talked to Jeff at JTR and he's bringing a pair down to Indy for me to hear next week. I can't wait!
<edit - Schpellink>
[Updated on: Sat, 31 March 2007 02:54]
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| Re: JTR Growler Subs [message #203249 is a reply to message #203193 ] |
Wed, 11 April 2007 14:47 |
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Steve Hurt
Messages: 871
Registered: April 2004
Location: Indianapolis |
Has No Life |
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Combat audio night. Stage volume was too much to combat and I didn't get a good sound.
Will be trying them again with different band different / different venue Saturday.
edit - removed unnecesary negative comment -
[Updated on: Tue, 24 April 2007 21:50]
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| Re: JTR Growler Subs [message #204432 is a reply to message #203249 ] |
Sun, 15 April 2007 22:56 |
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Steve Hurt
Messages: 871
Registered: April 2004
Location: Indianapolis |
Has No Life |
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I bought a pair of JTR Growler subs 10 days ago. These are my initial reactions.
At the 1st gig I did with them, the band outpowered the room before I ever turned on the P.A. It was a lost cause from the get go. To get a good mix I would have had to run at 110-115 db average at the board just to keep up with the stage din. Since volume complaints started during sound check before I brought the P.A. up, I knew that wasn't going to happen!
I did bring the subs up a couple time to see if they could do loud, and they did, but it really was a night of combat audio and getting a good mix was not in the cards.
Gig number 2. Ran sound for an outdoor festival at a local university. Two acts and music in between. The second act was a rapper with background tracks that had lots of lows (surprisingly well recorded!) I was able to dial in some serious T-H-U-M-P! with no problem.
I got the volume I needed and the quality was there. Good bass, not just loud bass. I really could hear a serious difference in quality over my old speakers. The Growlers did what I needed them to do and never worked up a sweat. The full low end was a treat!
I also got the time to do an RTA and see what the Driverack thought of them outside. The Growlers response curve was much flatter across the bottom end than my old EV S-181's. The Driverack also confirmed what my ears had told me: that at the same amp settings as I used to use, I was getting a more volume out of the Growlers than I got from my old subs.
Things I don't like: (I have no sound related complaints)
- No casters on them
- No pole sockets
- Line X coating smell takes about 2 weeks to dissipate
- The weigh 99 pounds. This is probably light for some of you, but my old cab's were 20 pounds lighter so it's an adjustment for me (I'm a one man show) However, I did consider subs that weighed as much as 135 pounds so 99 pounds isn't really that bad.
That's it! They'll have casters and pole sockets shortly, the smell is almost gone, and I've learned to lift them so it's all good for me!
What I like:
- Jeff is a nice guy - Awesome customer service.
Jeff drove 3 hours one way just to let me hear them. He did not know if I was going to buy them or not, when he promised to bring them by, and he didn't know me from Adam. He has a good product that pretty much sold itself once he got here, but still, that's a long way on the hope of a sale. I hope he succeeds, companies that do things like that are few and far between.
- Sound -
They sound good. Full, even, real bass
And they get as loud as anything I've seen that's even close in size.
I was talking to another guy and equated setting them up to be "like dropping a big V-8 into a Pinto. You're going to have traction problems till you learn to drive with that much more power"
Overall opinion: Growlers rock!
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. Right now I'm still trying to negotiate my way into getting some monitors. Oh well.
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