Forum Home » Sound Reinforcement » LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board » Drum Screens
| Drum Screens [message #290353] |
Wed, 06 February 2008 20:42  |
David Hadfield Messages: 96 Registered: December 2005 Location: Perth Western Australia |
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| Drum Screens[ 36 vote(s) ] |
| 1. | You use one because the artist wants it | 6 / 17% | | 2. | You use one because you want it | 16 / 44% | | 3. | You don't use one at all | 7 / 19% | | 4. | You want to use one but the artist says "hell no!" | 7 / 19% |
Just for my personal interest... obviously the kit will sound better without the fishbowl but then you also have the issue with the kit coming through other mics.
We use one for our worship services and we still have issues with the cymbals and hats still making it into vocal mics and don't bother trying to get anything other than cymbal wash out of the choir mics!. Recently we had a drum clinic and the dude made a comment of not liking said screens - he doesn't hit as hard as our guys.
We have had a visiting band (Parachute from NZ) ask for a higher screen - 1.8m (ours is 1.5m) - the 2 vox were on ears and didn't like the spill they could hear.
On the other hand, the Hillsong United guys prefer no screen (also on ears).
I prefer to have a screen to give me some control at FOH but a more musical approach to drumming (rather than the Muppet approach - "animal beat drums") would give on a better result. However, the screen will most probably always be my friend because you can't turn down a drum kit - unless you throw a brick in its general direction!
I have noticed that the Rogue Traders use little shields on their kit... I have also been to a church up the road that has a lid on their fishbowl - it sounds really bad!
What's your $0.02?
I work with knobs...
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| Re: Drum Screens [message #290410 is a reply to message #290353 ] |
Wed, 06 February 2008 23:02   |
Duncan McLennan Messages: 887 Registered: July 2005 Location: London & Waterloo, On... |
Has No Life |
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No way! They're so uncomfortable to play in. And hell to light.
Duncan McLennan
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| Re: Drum Screens [message #290423 is a reply to message #290353 ] |
Wed, 06 February 2008 23:20   |
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I'm all for playing in one if the show sounds better.
How do you tell a genuine Stradivarius from a copy?
The real one burns with a blue flame.
-Dick Rees
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| Re: Drum Screens [message #290434 is a reply to message #290423 ] |
Wed, 06 February 2008 23:58   |
Daniel Cash Messages: 15 Registered: September 2007 Location: California |
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I feel like this post belongs more on the Church Sound board... and not here.... but the mods can decide that.
Our Sanctuary is very "live" (does not have proper sound deadening) and the loudest instrument in the room is always the snare or ride. Before having a shield, I would build the mix around these un-reinforced drums pieces. The louder the drummer... the louder the rest of the mix.
In our church, this was unacceptable... especially when we are trying to keep things under 95dba, and the drums un-reinforced are hitting that. Some drummers could keep it under control, other not so much.
Recently we invested in a Clearsonics isolation booth. http://www.clearsonic.com/IsoPacA.htm
Its looks ugly... its dark inside... and some of the drummers are uncomfortable... and yes it has a lid on it.
However, overall it has made a huge positive difference in the sound. The stage volume has been reduced buy a lot... stage monitors (we are not on in ears) can be run a lot quieter and the vocalists couldn't be happier. I would even go so far as to say the mix is a bit better... since I have complete control over the levels of each piece of the drum kit.
Many people in the congregation have been happy with the change, and comment on the overall improvement, including the volume reduction. I think one component of our success is the quality and quantity of mics used on the kit. We have 9 mics on the kit.... kick, top and bottom snare, ride, 3 x tom, 2 x overheads.
Any less and I likely would be unsatisfied with how it sounds.
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| Re: Drum Screens [message #290444 is a reply to message #290442 ] |
Thu, 07 February 2008 01:30   |
Daniel Cash Messages: 15 Registered: September 2007 Location: California |
Here Often |
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| Nick Aghababian wrote on Thu, 07 February 2008 00:54 | Oh yeah, thats right, because drum screens are ONLY used in churches, never in any other situation, ever, especially live concerts, or anywhere else in the pro audio world, only churches.
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I wasn't clear. I felt my reply belongs more on the Church Board because of my limited experience and knowledge. I am self taught and only been doing this for about 3 years, mostly as a volunteer.
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| Re: Drum Screens [message #290445 is a reply to message #290353 ] |
Thu, 07 February 2008 01:36   |
Jonathan Heimberg Messages: 148 Registered: March 2005 Location: Bangalore, India |
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The real tragedy is that they are all too often used wrong...
You see the church with the drummer in the corner (brick wall behind him) and the screen in front. The screen isn't absorbing any sound, just sending some of the high freq's back to the bricks to echo back at you.
Another issue is drummers (admittedly not all of them, and I'm NOT a drum-hater, I too carry a stick bag) feel like they can 'cut loose' because they've got a screen.
Another misconception with the screens is what exactly they will accomplish. You're dreaming if you think you're going to absorb the sound of a 22" kick with a 1/4" plexi shield!
I've been in many places where the drummer isn't really too loud, but he 'looks' loud (because 'everyone else' uses a drum shield). So, put up a screen ($$$), add more mics (more $$$), and turn up the drums back to the original volume.... sheesh
Another danger: Acoustic drums can sound nice, even if a bit loud. Once you add the screen, you're forced to mic them. If you're not spending the $$ on good mics, and your engineer isn't up to speed, you're going to end up with a cruddier sound, even if it IS 2db quieter.
Just my .08 
Jonathan Heimberg
http://www.soundadvicetraining.com
Sound Training DVD's
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| Re: Drum Screens [message #290448 is a reply to message #290444 ] |
Thu, 07 February 2008 01:44   |
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| Daniel Cash wrote on Thu, 07 February 2008 02:30 |
| Nick Aghababian wrote on Thu, 07 February 2008 00:54 | Oh yeah, thats right, because drum screens are ONLY used in churches, never in any other situation, ever, especially live concerts, or anywhere else in the pro audio world, only churches.
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I wasn't clear. I felt my reply belongs more on the Church Board because of my limited experience and knowledge. I am self taught and only been doing this for about 3 years, mostly as a volunteer.
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I'm just messing with you man
How do you tell a genuine Stradivarius from a copy?
The real one burns with a blue flame.
-Dick Rees
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| Re: Drum Screens [message #290454 is a reply to message #290353 ] |
Thu, 07 February 2008 03:14   |
David Hadfield Messages: 96 Registered: December 2005 Location: Perth Western Australia |
Nothing Better To Do |
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So I thought I would show you what our screen looks like...

it is not a fishbowl in the technical sense of the word except that you can see the drummer swimming aimlessly behind it...
in response to comments that this should be a question asked in the church sound forum, as a church sound guy, I am also interested in what the larger industry has to do with them. Most churches, if they have kits at all, will have a screen of some sort just to keep the oldies happy.
| Quote: | You see the church with the drummer in the corner (brick wall behind him) and the screen in front. The screen isn't absorbing any sound, just sending some of the high freq's back to the bricks to echo back at you.
Another issue is drummers (admittedly not all of them, and I'm NOT a drum-hater, I too carry a stick bag) feel like they can 'cut loose' because they've got a screen.
Another misconception with the screens is what exactly they will accomplish. You're dreaming if you think you're going to absorb the sound of a 22" kick with a 1/4" plexi shield!
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true... although we have a reasonably well deadened stage with curtains and cyc - brick walls are not an issue. But on the other hand, the drummer will hit just a bit harder because he thinks people can't hear the crash...
| Quote: | Oh yeah, thats right, because drum screens are ONLY used in churches, never in any other situation, ever, especially live concerts, or anywhere else in the pro audio world, only churches.
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but the interesting thing is I saw a Rod Stewart gig with a huge 6ft (or higher) screen closing the drummer in... I am absolutely sure that wasn't a church service?
In my limited (read church) experience (and maybe a pub gig or two) a drum screen allows one to cut the drum sound a little, thus giving you extra control and a better mix out front (which BTW is the total reason why you would have a band, i.e. to have a good sound and not just mush).
Does anyone out there tell guitarists to turn it down? Now that is another poll... U2 has a screen to keep the guitar out of the kit, or is it to keep the kit out of the guitar?
[Updated on: Thu, 07 February 2008 03:21] I work with knobs...
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| Re: Drum Screens [message #290460 is a reply to message #290454 ] |
Thu, 07 February 2008 04:45   |
Frederik Rosenkjær Messages: 230 Registered: April 2005 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark |
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I'm definitely a drum shield addict - both as a drummer and tech. I voted "use it because I want to", but I don't see it so much as ME but the AUDIENCE. Hell, I get payed to be there and I have earplugs with me...are we playing for the audience or what?
The smaller the venue, the more benefit you get from using one, contrary to the logic of many musicians ("well, it's not that big a place, so I don't think we'll be using the drum cage..."...complete nonsense in my book).
I admit that it doesn't always look very good, and it can be an obstacle to communication - but the sound...it's like being tech on another (and infinitely much better) planet. Or can be, at least. In some places you'll need the complete package to do any real good (venues with low hard ceilings, esp.) - I mean, a complete cage with ceiling and all, which does not do wonders for the visibility of the drummer, but it can be helped somewhat with lighting from inside the cage.
David: regarding the picture of your screen - you really ought to get some sorbers behind the kit. That's a key part of the trick! The screen doesn't remove the problem, it just rearranges it - putting a screen in front and sorbers behind is the way to go. The sorbers take what comes directly from the kit, and the screen projects what comes out front to the sorbers for annihilation.
As a drummer, I also LOVE playing in a cage with in- or on-ear mons. But that's probably just because I can't help caring about the audience and their experience of the concert, especially the front row....silly me! I love being able to hit a crash cymbal as loud as I want knowing that the louder I play it, the better it will sound in the pit - not "the more painful it will be". I cannot play at all with that kind of concern in the back of my head. Also I love the clarity of the isolation and in-ears.
So, I'm really looking forward to seeing those new nano-coatings that can practically eliminate reflections applied to drum shields - that should go a long way to eliminate them visually...
Oh, and I think drums sound like crap acoustically...
[Updated on: Thu, 07 February 2008 14:36]
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