| Help w/stage volume from Marshall amp/cabinet [message #493554] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 06:45  |
 Steve Sagerson
Messages: 93
Registered: November 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas |
Nothing Better To Do |
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I am the singer and sound guy for a cover band that plays a lot of different clubs. My guitar player uses a boutique amp that is basically a Marshall with a 2-12" cabinet. He turns the cabinet on its side so that there's one speaker on the bottom and one on top. The problem is that he has to have the amp at a certain volume to get the correct tone but it's usually throwing way too much volume off the stage. We turn him sideways when possible so he shoots across the stage but that isn't always possible. He doesn't like to turn it around backwards and then the guitar through his monitor because it sounds different to him. The amazing thing is he claims this amp is a 15 watt head, but whatever wattage it is it's loud. I've heard him try to turn it down really low and I agree that it doesn't sound the same. I play guitar also (not in this band) and I can definitely hear the difference so I appreciate at his dilemma. He can't afford a hot plate attenuator right now so we need another solution.
I'm wondering what some of you experienced guys have done in these situations? Since I've switched to the O1v I have gotten our sound dialed in really well and the guitar volume is about the only issue I have these days. I've thought about maybe getting a foam piece made that could sit on a little stand in front of the amp (behind the mic) so absorb the stage volume. I used play in an original band and did some shows with a blues guitar player named Chris Duarte and he put plexi-glass in front of his amps because he turned up them up so damn loud so I thought of that idea also.
I'd appreciate a few suggestions but please keep them to ideas other than "Tell him to turn down." He actually does turn it down as far as he can but it's still too loud so other ways to deal with the problem is what I'm looking for.
Thanks!
Steve
http://www.myspace.com/partypushersband
http://www.myspace.com/soulvillemusic
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| Re: Help w/stage volume from Marshall amp/cabinet [message #493555 is a reply to message #493554 ] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 07:01  |
Jørgen Johansen
Messages: 48
Registered: April 2008
Location: Vestfold, Norway |
Should Get Out More |
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The plexi glass thing is not a bad idea IMO. But wouldn't that change the sound of the amp to the player aswell?
- J
[Updated on: Tue, 24 November 2009 07:03]
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| Re: Help w/stage volume from Marshall amp/cabinet [message #493564 is a reply to message #493554 ] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 07:40 |
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I have worked with a band that used gobos in front of their amps. They even had the fronts covered with some nice artwork. This is probably the best solution.
I don't play guitar, so I might be talking out my butt, but..
Does the tone really change that much when he turns down, or just the feel? Some guys just have this thing for swimming in their own audio.
Is having a good mix an acceptable trade for a less-than-godlike tone?
Dave Dermont - Chief Lizard, LAB Lounge
WARNING: Dates In Calendar May Be Closer Than They Appear
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| Re: Help w/stage volume from Marshall amp/cabinet [message #493565 is a reply to message #493554 ] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 07:41 |
Shane Presley
Messages: 560
Registered: January 2007
Location: Ottawa |
Has No Life |
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If the amp needs to be "driven" to get his tone, then he should look into a "power soak". It basically sucks up the amp's power to drive the tubes, but has a volume attenuator to allow it to be played low.
www.bssproductions.com
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| Re: Help w/stage volume from Marshall amp/cabinet [message #493570 is a reply to message #493564 ] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 07:57 |
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Bob Leonard
Messages: 4360
Registered: July 2006
Location: Boston, MA |
Has No Life |
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| Dave Dermont wrote on Tue, 24 November 2009 08:40 |
I have worked with a band that used gobos in front of their amps. They even had the fronts covered with some nice artwork. This is probably the best solution.
I don't play guitar, so I might be talking out my butt, but..
Does the tone really change that much when he turns down, or just the feel? Some guys just have this thing for swimming in their own audio.
Is having a good mix an acceptable trade for a less-than-godlike tone?
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DAve,
The tone changes, but not drastically, the FEEL is what changes most, and that's important to a guitar player.
I've seen the GOBO thing in the past and you're correct. It's a good way to dampen sound. What our OP needs to remember here is that 15 watts of driven tube tone can be very loud indeed, loud enougn to play most smaller clubs and more than loud enough if driven by an effects unit in front of the preamp.
I would suggest the following;
GOBO's
Plexi the size of the amp 6" in front of it.
Tilt back legs, Fender style, at a 45 degree angle or better.
Another point is to kill the rear projecting sound from that open back combo as much as is possible by either backing the amp against a wall or by planting a case or two behind it. Either will have the effect of enhancing the low end, not always a bad thing.
The roar of the grease paint, the smell of the crowd.
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| Re: Help w/stage volume from Marshall amp/cabinet [message #493586 is a reply to message #493570 ] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 08:50 |
Bob Hulme
Messages: 307
Registered: February 2005
Location: Canada |
Has No Life |
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[quote title=Bob Leonard wrote on Tue, 24 November 2009 08:57
Tilt back legs, Fender style, at a 45 degree angle or better.
[/quote]
Bob's got it right. Tilt the cab back or lay it down with something about 4" under it.
I did a show that had a 5 piece band and a 14 piece orchestra, doing "The Magical Mystery Tour" album. The Guitar player had a Vox AC 30 and as low as he could turn it, it was still to loud. We ended up putting the cab on it's back with the cover for his pedal board under the back to protect the jack. I actually had to ask him to turn it up a tad. Now this was in a Theatre with a high ceiling but it would take the bite out of the sound even in a low ceiling bar.
Hope this helps, Bob H
"I finally thought I had the rat race won, then along came faster rats"
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| Re: Help w/stage volume from Marshall amp/cabinet [message #493596 is a reply to message #493586 ] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 09:13 |
Steve Sagerson
Messages: 93
Registered: November 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas |
Nothing Better To Do |
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Thanks guys. If you noticed I wrote that he can't afford a hot plate right now. Also, when I said the tone changes if it's turned down too low I was referring the "feel" to a degree, but in essence it is a tone issue also. The amp lacks the attack and sustain it has at "normal" volume so it does sound different. I'm a crappy guitar player and I can hear the difference. He's not the kind of guitar player that is all about him. We've talked about this issue and we do what we can to compromise. This is not a combo amp. This is a 2-12" Marshall cabinet and he sets the amp head on top which is probaby why we never tried tilting it back. It is a closed back cabinet also.
I appreciate the suggestions. I may try all of them. He could always tilt it back if he set his amp head on the floor next to it and I'll probably try some kind of gobo panel also. One of those two solutions should be helpful.
Thanks!
Steve
http://www.myspace.com/partypushersband
http://www.myspace.com/soulvillemusic
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| Re: Help w/stage volume from Marshall amp/cabinet [message #493606 is a reply to message #493596 ] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 09:38 |
Shane Presley
Messages: 560
Registered: January 2007
Location: Ottawa |
Has No Life |
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$329 for a THD, sounds like 3/4s of one gig's pay (not sure what the market is for bands down there)...If it's his full time job, that would be something else.... IMO you gotta spend some money to make some...
[Updated on: Tue, 24 November 2009 09:38]
www.bssproductions.com
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| Re: Help w/stage volume from Marshall amp/cabinet [message #493632 is a reply to message #493596 ] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 10:48 |
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| Steve Sagerson wrote on Tue, 24 November 2009 09:13 |
Thanks guys. If you noticed I wrote that he can't afford a hot plate right now. Also, when I said the tone changes if it's turned down too low I was referring the "feel" to a degree, but in essence it is a tone issue also. The amp lacks the attack and sustain it has at "normal" volume so it does sound different. I'm a crappy guitar player and I can hear the difference. He's not the kind of guitar player that is all about him. We've talked about this issue and we do what we can to compromise. This is not a combo amp. This is a 2-12" Marshall cabinet and he sets the amp head on top which is probaby why we never tried tilting it back. It is a closed back cabinet also.
I appreciate the suggestions. I may try all of them. He could always tilt it back if he set his amp head on the floor next to it and I'll probably try some kind of gobo panel also. One of those two solutions should be helpful.
Thanks!
Steve
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Maybe you could make one yourself. http://www.amptone.com/g243.htm
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary, and those who don't.
~ #1 Dave Matthews fan.
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| Re: Help w/stage volume from Marshall amp/cabinet [message #493662 is a reply to message #493644 ] |
Tue, 24 November 2009 12:02 |
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| Steve Sagerson wrote on Tue, 24 November 2009 11:32 |
I ain't going anywhere near a soldering gun!!!! lol
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Wouldn't be a bad idea to buy one and learn how to use it. You'll be glad you did.
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary, and those who don't.
~ #1 Dave Matthews fan.
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