| A guide to LED PARs? [message #382046] |
Sat, 29 November 2008 10:39  |
 Dave Potter
Messages: 245
Registered: April 2004
Location: North London |
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I'm thinking about basic mood lighting for my band (as an alternative to darkness).
I see some many questions about newbie lighting rigs that start with " I'm just about to buy X....", but the answer comes back "buy Y instead". So instead I thought that I should start right at the beginning. I can't find an FAQ.
What are the differences between expensive and cheaper LEDs? If you need Red/blue/green lights for a display, can you get away with 1/3 less lights (say 2 instead of 6)?
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"When he wakes up, think of something cool. Tell him I said it" ( Buffy)
www.davethebass.com
www.myspace.com/theswatbanduk
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| Re: A guide to LED PARs? [message #382082 is a reply to message #382053 ] |
Sat, 29 November 2008 13:24  |
Dave Potter
Messages: 245
Registered: April 2004
Location: North London |
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Ok, I sort of invited the obvious response. LEDs do more, but you need to be close up. More expensive LEDs are better than cheap ones. I should have been more specific.
Context,
Small band, colour washing from less than 20 feet, or even from the floor. I'm already decided on LED because they are more versatile and I wont break the bulbs. We'll get on to DMX controllers later.
How do you tell a good one? (they don't spec in lumins and I wouldn't know how many are right anyway) What about PAR 64 against 56 or 36?
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"When he wakes up, think of something cool. Tell him I said it" ( Buffy)
www.davethebass.com
www.myspace.com/theswatbanduk
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| Re: A guide to LED PARs? [message #382090 is a reply to message #382082 ] |
Sat, 29 November 2008 13:43 |
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Milt Hathaway
Messages: 862
Registered: April 2004 |
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| Dave Potter wrote on Sat, 29 November 2008 13:24 |
What about PAR 64 against 56 or 36?
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I don't have clear answers to your other questions, so I'll address this one. It's just packaging. What matters is the quantity and wattage of the LEDs themselves. While we are certainly all used to the big round cans, when it comes to space issues big round cans are by far the least efficient way to go. My favorites right now are the brick-style fixtures because are extremely efficient to pack and transport. The flat panel style are also very efficient to transport, and can pack quite a punch.
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Milt
FitzCo Sound, Inc.
Midland, TX
http://www.fitzcosound.com
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| Re: A guide to LED PARs? [message #382138 is a reply to message #382090 ] |
Sat, 29 November 2008 18:39 |
Duane Massey
Messages: 1460
Registered: January 2006
Location: Houston, Tx |
Has No Life |
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Budget vs needs; do you need a bright stage, or do you just want a bit of light and color? Do you currently have a light system that you would be upgrading from? And how much versatility do you need?
I play in a wedding band that stays very busy, and all we use is a Mega-panel on each side. On the one hand, it looks pretty anemic and doesn't really cover very well, but the singer doesn't want anything brighter, and it looks a lot better than the 50w floodlights they used to use. I will replacing the Mega-panels with 4 P56 fixtures soon for better coverage, but that's as far as I will go with this band.
On the other hand, I sometimes play with a different wedding band, and they use 16 Par64 500w fixtures. They would have to really cough up some $$$$ to make an upgrade using LED's, and they probably will next year.
One size does not fit all.
Duane Massey
Houston, Texas, USA
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| Re: A guide to LED PARs? [message #382219 is a reply to message #382138 ] |
Sun, 30 November 2008 04:50 |
Dave Potter
Messages: 245
Registered: April 2004
Location: North London |
Has No Life |
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Actually, I went to see a new venue last night. The band was using 2 LED PAR64s tied to the FOH speaker poles, and a 3rd pointing at the kick drum. Quite dark but its something.
The reason is space. The bar guy doesn't want his floor space taken up with lighting stands. Its also a safety hazard. We would like to use the projectors that we own but many pubs and bars have low ceilings.
I already own a long bar version of a panel. So I might just buy a second for now and work up from there.
*************************************************
"When he wakes up, think of something cool. Tell him I said it" ( Buffy)
www.davethebass.com
www.myspace.com/theswatbanduk
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| Re: A guide to LED PARs? [message #382259 is a reply to message #382090 ] |
Sun, 30 November 2008 12:09 |
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Rob Timmerman
Messages: 1316
Registered: April 2004
Location: My own little world |
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| Milt Hathaway wrote on Sat, 29 November 2008 14:43 |
What matters is the quantity and wattage of the LEDs themselves.
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That's a bit like saying that the only thing that determines how loud a PA can get is the size of the amp rack.
Quantity of LEDs does matter, as does the exact LED that is used (there's about a 2:1 range in efficiency in 1W LEDs currently on the market). And how the LED is driven within the fixture matters as well. LEDs can be overdriven for more output, at the expense of lower efficiency, more heat, shifting color, and shorter lifespan. Or they can be underdriven for higher efficiency, lower heat, longer life, and less output.
Another factor is the optics used within a fixture. A very wide beam (such as can be achieved by not using any collimating optics) gives more light out of the fixture, but not a particularly useful beam. Narrow beam optics often have beam artifacts, and may have varying efficiencies.
Yes, quantity and wattage of LEDs are one factor in determining the light output from the fixture, much the same way that lamp wattage is a factor in determining how much light comes out of a conventional fixture. But as we saw when the Source 4 came out, what matters is the photometrics of the fixture (delivered lumens and footcandles), not the input power or what is under the hood.
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| Re: A guide to LED PARs? [message #382518 is a reply to message #382259 ] |
Mon, 01 December 2008 13:05 |
Dave Potter
Messages: 245
Registered: April 2004
Location: North London |
Has No Life |
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If only they quoted output and beam angle.
*************************************************
"When he wakes up, think of something cool. Tell him I said it" ( Buffy)
www.davethebass.com
www.myspace.com/theswatbanduk
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| Re: A guide to LED PARs? [message #384756 is a reply to message #384734 ] |
Mon, 08 December 2008 16:36 |
Duane Massey
Messages: 1460
Registered: January 2006
Location: Houston, Tx |
Has No Life |
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White LED's with gels would be a major step backwards in terms of light output. I'd try 4 P65 or 64 RGB-LED's; depending upon your budget there are several choices, but the "general" rule is to buy the highest output fixtures you can afford. If you're currently using only blue gels, the LED's will look quite good, and you can get a cheap controller to utilize the other color possibilities as well.
Duane Massey
Houston, Texas, USA
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| Re: A guide to LED PARs? [message #386603 is a reply to message #382046 ] |
Sun, 14 December 2008 19:13 |
Bob Charest
Messages: 76
Registered: January 2007 |
Nothing Better To Do |
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I'm using 8 RGB par64 LED's (4 on each side of the stage) with 2 par36 white LED fixture (1 on each side) to brighten up the singers. One Chauvet ColorSplash jr aimed at the drumhead. It is mounted on the stage-right light tree. Lastly, we've got three RGB light bars behind the band for uplighting. Attached is the first of three pictures so you can judge the amount and saturation of light this rig provides.
Best regards,
Bob Charest
[Updated on: Sun, 14 December 2008 19:14]
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