Forum Home » Sound Reinforcement » Product Reviews: Sound Reinforcement » Heil PR-22
| Heil PR-22 [message #331449] |
Fri, 13 June 2008 23:56  |
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Andy Peters Messages: 9110 Registered: April 2004 Location: Tucson, AZ |
Has No Life Contrarian |
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A couple of PR22s and Heil's "Handi-Mics" showed up on my doorstop this afternoon (an early father's day gift!). Here are my "first impressions."
The PR22s come in a neat thick padded case, and as an added bonus, the package includes the gold and matte-black windscreens in addition to the standard silver screen.
Naturally, the first thing I wanted to do was compare it to the "obsolete industry-standard ball microphone." I do own one SM58, which I've had for years but it's been used very rarely. I never keep it in the mic box; it was in its pouch on a shelf, and as such it's "like new!"
My "test set-up" consists of a pair of Genelec 1031A studio monitors hooked up to a Rane MLM82a mic/line mixer. (The Rane mixer mic inputs are the same TI INA163s found on many mixing consoles. Its input impedance is 2.66k.) I just plugged the Heil into one channel and the Shure into another, turned on one speaker, talked into the two mics and matched levels.
I asked my wife to listen to both mics (not telling her which was which) and tell me which she thought sounded better. I spoke into both, back and forth, and at one point while speaking into the PR22, she said, "That sounds better." But her comment about the SM58 was telling: "That one sounds like you're talking into a microphone."
To my ears, the Heil sounded like my voice, which I suppose is the whole point. And it does so, regardless of the distance between the mic and my mouth, since the PR22 doesn't exhibit much proximity effect. However, if you're working with a vocalist who expects same and knows how to "work the mic" you might want to look elsewhere. I suspect that most of us just roll up the channel-strip high-pass (or, better, use a multiband compressor). The thing is, while the PR22 has little proximity effect, its data sheet indicates its LF response is flat down to 50 Hz, an octave better than the SM58. So to me this indicates that you get useful, "unhyped" LF and simply speaking into the mic bears this out.
Also missing is the SM58's presence peak, which is a comparative icepick to the forehead. I suppose the presence peak is an example of a bug that got turned into a "feature," but to be honest, who the hell needs it? (An aside: the SM57 is the "standard" guitar-amp mic, but what guitar amp needs a presence peak?)
Another thing I noticed was that the SM58 sounded a bit distorted, even with just my speaking voice. I suspect that this is a function of the presence peak and the proximity effect.
(I've noticed this distortion on the voice of the singer I work for; he was using an SM58 and then a Beta57A and I noticed the same distortion. It was driving me nuts, as it was happening on different consoles on different systems, and I thought it might be an insert or whatever. I tried swapping Beta57As with no effect. Finally replacing the Beta57A with an EV757A solved the problem. Some old-timers may remember that one complaint about the original, non-A, Beta58 was that it overloaded easily.)
Handling noise, at least in my test set-up, was not a problem, certainly as good as the SM58. It remains to be heard how well it rejects LF crawling up a mic stand that's sitting on top of sub cabs built into a stage.
I compared the PR22 to my EV757A, but I'm not sure how fair a comparison this is, because the EV has been around the block a bit and that mic is no longer in production (it's been replaced by the 767A, which is noticeably better sounding). The PR22 is certainly clearer. With the 757's LF rolloff disengaged, its proximity effect (it's a supercardioid) is very obvious, resulting in very hyped low end on my voice (which, again, is typically rolled off on the channel strip). With the high-pass engaged, the 757 clears up but it then sounds thin.
So ... the first impression is that "it sounds like my voice," much more so than the SM58. The next step is to put it in front of a vocal wedge and see how loud it gets before it goes to shit. Also, I want to hear how it works when the singer is 5' from a drum kit. Hopefully, I'll get to that next week.
-a
PS: I suppose it's worth mentioning that Shure obviously believes that the SM58 is not the be-all and end-all of handheld vocal mics. Otherwise, they wouldn't have bothered with the SM86, Beta87 or KSM9, all of which are much better mics than the SM58. And SM58-bashing is sorta like shooting fish in a barrel. But, then again, they market it as the "industry standard."
But really, but when you consider that Bob gives you a mic and two replacement windscreens for what you'd pay for an SM58 and two new windscreens, why bother with the obsolete ball microphone?
"This isn't some upside down inverted Socratic method where you throw out your best guess answers and I correct your work." -- JR
"On the Internet, nobody can hear you mix a band."
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| Re: Heil PR-22 [message #331548 is a reply to message #331492 ] |
Sat, 14 June 2008 14:00   |
John Chiara Messages: 2186 Registered: April 2004 Location: Troy, NY |
Has No Life |
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| Jordan Wolf wrote on Sat, 14 June 2008 09:10 | I've got a small concert with a gospel singer tomorrow and I'm planning to use my PR-22 so long as it suits her voice. The only reason I might not is if she needs 2 mics (1 CS and 1 at the keyboard). I'll let everyone know how it pans out.
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I had this with a keyboard player with 2 mics and he had a PR 22 and a Beta 58..interesting hearing the difference on the same singer/same stage/setup..etc.
John
"mix is a verb, not a noun" Sooo, as Aunt Bea would say.."Get to it!!!"
John A. Chiara aka. Blind Johnny
Albany Audio Associates Inc.
Troy, NY
518-961-0069 - cell
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| Re: Heil PR-22 [message #331789 is a reply to message #331449 ] |
Sun, 15 June 2008 18:31   |
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Thanks for the review.
Is there a big difference between the PR22s and PR20?
How did the Hindi-Mic compare to the PR22?
Lastly who is your dealer? Link?
Looking for some mic's and hearing allot about these.
Thanks again.
Douglas R. Allen
Allen Audio
"The worst thing is."
"You can't teach common sense."
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| Re: Heil PR-22 [message #331863 is a reply to message #331449 ] |
Mon, 16 June 2008 00:09   |
Jordan Wolf Messages: 1889 Registered: November 2006 Location: Cherry Hill, NJ |
Has No Life |
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Well, sadly, I decided not to use the PR-22 today. The artist is a great singer and utilizes a mic technique that plays on the proximity effect...so, that left the PR-22 out of the equation this time.
Other than that, the little concert went fine.
To Douglas:
The PR-22 is a "fixed" version of the PR-20. It was found out that the PR-20 had a very big handling noise issue, so Bob (Heil) came up with a fix and, thus, the PR-22.
[Updated on: Mon, 16 June 2008 00:11] Wolf
<><
"A lack of preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."
- Me
"With that much comb filtering you could probably part your hair just by walking through the room." - Dick Rees
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| Re: Heil PR-22 [message #332081 is a reply to message #331863 ] |
Mon, 16 June 2008 16:51   |
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Bob Leonard Messages: 4669 Registered: July 2006 Location: Boston, MA |
Has No Life |
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| Jordan Wolf wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 01:09 | Well, sadly, I decided not to use the PR-22 today. The artist is a great singer and utilizes a mic technique that plays on the proximity effect...so, that left the PR-22 out of the equation this time.
Other than that, the little concert went fine.
To Douglas:
The PR-22 is a "fixed" version of the PR-20. It was found out that the PR-20 had a very big handling noise issue, so Bob (Heil) came up with a fix and, thus, the PR-22.
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Jordan/douglas,
The PR-20 has what should be considered excessive handling noise when hand held. If the mike is used in a stand the handling noise is negligible. The PR-20 is an excellent mic where it is stand mounted such as when used as a drum overhead, guitar cabinets, etc.
The roar of the grease paint, the smell of the crowd.
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| Re: Heil PR-22 [message #332118 is a reply to message #332081 ] |
Mon, 16 June 2008 18:47   |
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Andy Peters Messages: 9110 Registered: April 2004 Location: Tucson, AZ |
Has No Life Contrarian |
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| Bob Leonard wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 14:51 |
| Jordan Wolf wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 01:09 | Well, sadly, I decided not to use the PR-22 today. The artist is a great singer and utilizes a mic technique that plays on the proximity effect...so, that left the PR-22 out of the equation this time.
Other than that, the little concert went fine.
To Douglas:
The PR-22 is a "fixed" version of the PR-20. It was found out that the PR-20 had a very big handling noise issue, so Bob (Heil) came up with a fix and, thus, the PR-22.
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Jordan/douglas,
The PR-20 has what should be considered excessive handling noise when hand held. If the mike is used in a stand the handling noise is negligible. The PR-20 is an excellent mic where it is stand mounted such as when used as a drum overhead, guitar cabinets, etc.
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Stand mounting doesn't mitigate the problem of handling noise is fucked-up-yet-common situations like Club Congress here in Tucson. The subs are built into the stage in such a way that the whole downstage section (above the subs) resonates, and of course that's where the frontline vocal mics live. LF has a fun habit of traveling up the stand to the vocal mics.
(And that's not the worst thing about that install ...)
-a
"This isn't some upside down inverted Socratic method where you throw out your best guess answers and I correct your work." -- JR
"On the Internet, nobody can hear you mix a band."
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| Re: Heil PR-22 [message #332467 is a reply to message #332118 ] |
Tue, 17 June 2008 19:58   |
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Bob Leonard Messages: 4669 Registered: July 2006 Location: Boston, MA |
Has No Life |
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| Andy Peters wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 19:47 |
| Bob Leonard wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 14:51 |
| Jordan Wolf wrote on Mon, 16 June 2008 01:09 | Well, sadly, I decided not to use the PR-22 today. The artist is a great singer and utilizes a mic technique that plays on the proximity effect...so, that left the PR-22 out of the equation this time.
Other than that, the little concert went fine.
To Douglas:
The PR-22 is a "fixed" version of the PR-20. It was found out that the PR-20 had a very big handling noise issue, so Bob (Heil) came up with a fix and, thus, the PR-22.
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Jordan/douglas,
The PR-20 has what should be considered excessive handling noise when hand held. If the mike is used in a stand the handling noise is negligible. The PR-20 is an excellent mic where it is stand mounted such as when used as a drum overhead, guitar cabinets, etc.
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Stand mounting doesn't mitigate the problem of handling noise is fucked-up-yet-common situations like Club Congress here in Tucson. The subs are built into the stage in such a way that the whole downstage section (above the subs) resonates, and of course that's where the frontline vocal mics live. LF has a fun habit of traveling up the stand to the vocal mics.
(And that's not the worst thing about that install ...)
-a
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Andy,
I have to agree. Actually, it was a club with a high hollow stage that prompted me to call Bob Heil about the issue in the first place. But then again, everything we put on the stage that night gave up the same shit. We finally rolled in some carpet and that was that, but correct again. If it's there it's a problem.
I wish I could remember the model of the subs built into the stage at a club I worked in Somerville, MA. I built out the system with what they had, all EAW. The subs were horns built into the stage and I could literally crawl inside them. Opened for a name there one night and the names girlfriend sat on the edge of the stage all night. I asked her why and she told me she was into the vibration.
How's Milo??
[Updated on: Tue, 17 June 2008 19:59] The roar of the grease paint, the smell of the crowd.
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| Re: Heil PR-22 [message #333300 is a reply to message #331449 ] |
Fri, 20 June 2008 17:04   |
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I called Sweetwater to order 3 of the PR-22's and they told me they ran into problems and would not be selling the entire line of Heil Mic's anymore. Problems?
Now I don't know if I should order any or not.
Any heads up?
Thanks
Douglas R. Allen
Allen Audio
"The worst thing is."
"You can't teach common sense."
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| Re: Heil PR-22 [message #333344 is a reply to message #331449 ] |
Fri, 20 June 2008 21:07   |
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Bob Leonard Messages: 4669 Registered: July 2006 Location: Boston, MA |
Has No Life |
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Douglas,
That's just wrong. I'll make it a point to call Bob Heil tomorrow and get an answer from him if he is available. If I can't get hold of him then I'll get back to this as soon as possible. I can tell you this much though. They finished a run of 1700 this week and Bob has not mentioned any problems to me at all. MF has them if you want them and they carry the full line.
[Updated on: Fri, 20 June 2008 21:08] The roar of the grease paint, the smell of the crowd.
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| Re: Heil PR-22 [message #333730 is a reply to message #333300 ] |
Sun, 22 June 2008 16:39   |
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Andy Peters Messages: 9110 Registered: April 2004 Location: Tucson, AZ |
Has No Life Contrarian |
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| Douglas R. Allen wrote on Fri, 20 June 2008 15:04 | I called Sweetwater to order 3 of the PR-22's and they told me they ran into problems and would not be selling the entire line of Heil Mic's anymore. Problems?
Now I don't know if I should order any or not.
Any heads up?
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I rather suspect that the "problem" may be that Sweetwater and Heil could not come to an agreement over pricing or whatever. IOW, the problem is not with the product.
-a
"This isn't some upside down inverted Socratic method where you throw out your best guess answers and I correct your work." -- JR
"On the Internet, nobody can hear you mix a band."
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| Re: Heil PR-22 [message #333735 is a reply to message #331449 ] |
Sun, 22 June 2008 17:04   |
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Andy Peters Messages: 9110 Registered: April 2004 Location: Tucson, AZ |
Has No Life Contrarian |
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OK, quickie review. I did a show last night with my regular guys and I used the PR-22 on the singer/keyboardist, Dan. The singing guitarist got his usual Beta57A, which works very well for his voice.
First things first: in addition to being a musician, Dan is also a sound guy (which is his day job), so he knows how to work a mic. He's real good at backing off when he's not singing lead.
Now with something like a Beta57A, when he was on the mic singing lead, the pronounced proximity effect was a problem ... too much "whoomph" in the voice, which I usually took out using the channel-strip high-pass. (Oh, to have a multiband comp!) Of course when he backed off, his already-reedy tenor got even thinner.
With the PR-22, none of this is a problem. Backups sounded like leads. Spoken stuff between songs also didn't suffer from the whoomphiness. Getting monitors to adequate levels was not a problem. The channel strip was flat (system is EAW MK-series top boxes) and his voice sounded like his voice. (And we figure that the distortion I always hear with him singing, regardless of mic, console or system, is actually his voice. In the studio, he doesn't push his voice like he does live.)
So after the set, I asked him what he thought. He said that it sounded good, but he was getting a lot of stage wash in his wedge. "Everything seemed loud." I suppose that's more a function of the cardioid pattern rather than the super-cardioid of the Beta57A or the EV 757A I'd used for him in the past. (After all, that's why we use super- and hyper-cardioid mics!)
Also, while Bob doesn't publish polar plots of the mic response, I suspect that the pattern is wider than the obsolete ball-mic cardioid. As we all know, omnis don't exhibit any proximity effect, and my guess is that whatever ameliorates that effect in the PR-22 also serves to widen the pattern. Of course a uniform pattern (in the mic as well as the wedge) goes a long way towards feedback mitigation, so while the pattern is wider, lack of presence peak and other odd bumps in the pattern make monitors easier.
I would imagine that the mic will work well for the big shows I have coming up at beginning of July, as the band's stage volume is quite reasonable and the drummer isn't a basher.
But what I really want is a supercardioid version of this thing. How's that for a design challenge?
-a
"This isn't some upside down inverted Socratic method where you throw out your best guess answers and I correct your work." -- JR
"On the Internet, nobody can hear you mix a band."
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| Re: Heil PR-22 [message #334037 is a reply to message #333735 ] |
Mon, 23 June 2008 16:30   |
John Chiara Messages: 2186 Registered: April 2004 Location: Troy, NY |
Has No Life |
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Another observation. Mixed 8 bands in the last 48 hours. All Emo/rock acts..touring and local. The PR35/22 in the hands of a front person vocalist is great for one reason alone...when the stupid singers cup the mic..the sound only changes marginally..compared to a normal handheld..this alone is a blessing when trying to coax decent tone from some of these guys.
"mix is a verb, not a noun" Sooo, as Aunt Bea would say.."Get to it!!!"
John A. Chiara aka. Blind Johnny
Albany Audio Associates Inc.
Troy, NY
518-961-0069 - cell
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