| ? for those of you that use big amps and HF drivers [message #161803] |
Thu, 09 November 2006 21:01  |
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 RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS
Messages: 2088
Registered: August 2005
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Alrighty now,
I have been slowly buying Camco Vortex 6 amps. I will be using in each rack one to power the Lows and another to power the Mids on channel A and the Highs on channel B.
I know there are others out here using high output amps even on their HF drivers. How are you setting the gain and limiters on these. I have a BSS minidrive 336T in each rack. I don't really want to set it so that all the devices in the signal chain will clip at the same time because I don't want to risk pushing 1350 watts into a 160 watt HF driver.
Are you guys setting the limiter at say +4db and then backing off on the amps or are you setting the limiters much lower and backing down the gain in the DSP?
Any recommendations or advice is much appreciated.
Ryan Jenkins
Ryan Jenkins
"Two days until the end of when I don't know what to think. Three days until I start the cycle all over again!"
Please visit my website at http://www.murphygirl.com
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| Re: ? for those of you that use big amps and HF drivers [message #161811 is a reply to message #161803 ] |
Thu, 09 November 2006 21:29  |
Patrick Tracy
Messages: 1512
Registered: February 2006
Location: Boulder, CO |
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Okay, I really belong in the lounge, but I'll respond anyway.
If I had the luxury of all that fancy DSP and the time to properly set it up I would want to keep my signals hot to the amps and attenuate as needed there rather than send low signal any distance. If your DSP is right by the amps the signal has less opportunity to pick up noise, but with the amps wide open they will amplify any noises downstream of the DSP, from a bad cable or whatever, enough to threaten you drivers given the power capability of the amp you want to use.
[Updated on: Thu, 09 November 2006 21:30]
http://home.earthlink.net/~patrickgtracy
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| Re: ? for those of you that use big amps and HF drivers [message #161817 is a reply to message #161813 ] |
Thu, 09 November 2006 21:54 |
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RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS
Messages: 2088
Registered: August 2005
Location: Surface of the Sun, It's ... |
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| Langston Holland wrote on Thu, 09 November 2006 20:44 |
Hey Ryan - what's the loudspeaker make and model? Just for fun, what are your subs' make/model? With a 160 watt compression driver it's pretty stout, like a KF650z or something. Secondly, are you running the tops bi or triamped?
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Hey Langston,
They are TCS 2500s. They are tri-amp only boxes. The drivers are as follows:
HF B&C DE85 - 8 ohms
MF B&C 8PL21 - 16 ohms X 2 = 8 ohms nominal load
LF B&C 15PZB40 - 8 ohms X 2 = 4 ohms nominal load
My subs are TCS 2800s
LF B&C 18PZB40 - 8 ohms X 2 = 4 ohms nominal load
[Updated on: Thu, 09 November 2006 21:57]
Ryan Jenkins
"Two days until the end of when I don't know what to think. Three days until I start the cycle all over again!"
Please visit my website at http://www.murphygirl.com
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| Re: ? for those of you that use big amps and HF drivers [message #161826 is a reply to message #161812 ] |
Thu, 09 November 2006 22:18 |
Patrick Tracy
Messages: 1512
Registered: February 2006
Location: Boulder, CO |
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| Mac Kerr wrote on Thu, 09 November 2006 20:40 |
| Patrick Tracy wrote on Thu, 09 November 2006 22:29 |
If I had the luxury of all that fancy DSP and the time to properly set it up I would want to keep my signals hot to the amps and attenuate as needed there rather than send low signal any distance. If your DSP is right by the amps the signal has less opportunity to pick up noise, but with the amps wide open they will amplify any noises downstream of the DSP, from a bad cable or whatever, enough to threaten you drivers given the power capability of the amp you want to use.
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While it is true that you may be able to optimize your S/N by turning down the amps, that is a separate issue from how you deal with a high power amp on your high frequency drivers. The gain still needs to be as specified.
Mac
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I guess it makes me a little nearvous to run a really big amp wide open to a low-power driver. One bad connector getting some vibration could send career-ending voltage spikes to the poor HF driver. I'm much less concerned about some noise or hum getting in, though that's a consideration as well.
I'm assuming that you mean something like "The gain settings in the DSP need to be as specified by the manufacturer for the given amplifier/speaker combination." Now, what is the difference between lowering the voltage at the DSP's output and lowering it in the amp, as long as the output of the DSP is high enough to keep the S/N reasonable while not clipping at the amp's input? Inquiring minds want to know...
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| Re: ? for those of you that use big amps and HF drivers [message #161838 is a reply to message #161826 ] |
Thu, 09 November 2006 22:56 |
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Andy Peters
Messages: 6825
Registered: April 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ |
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| Patrick Tracy wrote on Thu, 09 November 2006 21:18 |
I'm assuming that you mean something like "The gain settings in the DSP need to be as specified by the manufacturer for the given amplifier/speaker combination." Now, what is the difference between lowering the voltage at the DSP's output and lowering it in the amp, as long as the output of the DSP is high enough to keep the S/N reasonable while not clipping at the amp's input? Inquiring minds want to know...
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The difference is that the DSP output is calibrated more precisely than any front-panel pot could be ('cept for those fancy multiturn multi-dollar precision pots you never see on audio gear).
-a
"It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue."
"On the Internet, nobody can hear you mix a band."
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| Re: ? for those of you that use big amps and HF drivers [message #161842 is a reply to message #161803 ] |
Thu, 09 November 2006 23:07 |
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Ryan,
Big amps on HF drivers are there for a few msec of peak voltage, and I'm totally sold on the idea. Hopefully Alex Dravinec will pop in here and explain how he keeps the HF drivers in his products from launching out of the box, but all I know about it is he's got carefully set non-zero-attack-time limiters and some of the best HF drivers on the planet.
I'm sure there's some scientific reason that HF energy tends to be so peaky, but while it seems almost a waste to throw big dog amps at a driver capable of handling only a few hundred watts, having cymbals come through un-crunched makes it well worth the fuss.
-- Bennett Prescott
Director of North American Sales
EONA ADRaudio d.o.o.
Cell: (518) 488-7190
An amateur practices until they get it right. A professional practices until they can't get it wrong.
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| Re: ? for those of you that use big amps and HF drivers [message #161851 is a reply to message #161838 ] |
Thu, 09 November 2006 23:40 |
Pascal Pincosy
Messages: 699
Registered: June 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA |
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| Andy Peters wrote on Fri, 10 November 2006 04:56 |
The difference is that the DSP output is calibrated more precisely than any front-panel pot could be ('cept for those fancy multiturn multi-dollar precision pots you never see on audio gear).
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The Camco Vortex 6 has microprocessor-controlled volume controls with detented pots, so they're pretty darn accurate. I don't think this argument applies to this amp.
Know:Audio
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US Distributor: Trabes/MG Srl
Speaker Lifts-Truss-Roof Systems
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| Re: ? for those of you that use big amps and HF drivers [message #161868 is a reply to message #161838 ] |
Fri, 10 November 2006 00:57 |
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| Andy Peters wrote on Thu, 09 November 2006 23:56 |
| Patrick Tracy wrote on Thu, 09 November 2006 21:18 |
I'm assuming that you mean something like "The gain settings in the DSP need to be as specified by the manufacturer for the given amplifier/speaker combination." Now, what is the difference between lowering the voltage at the DSP's output and lowering it in the amp, as long as the output of the DSP is high enough to keep the S/N reasonable while not clipping at the amp's input? Inquiring minds want to know...
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The difference is that the DSP output is calibrated more precisely than any front-panel pot could be ('cept for those fancy multiturn multi-dollar precision pots you never see on audio gear).
-a
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Another problem is that even if the amp offers accurate setting toward the top of the pot they are very coarse in adjustment toward the bottom. Additionally, when they are turned down that much, I've heard that you can actually overload the input section of the amp. This is really only a problem when the amp is huge compared to the driver requirements.
Ryan Lantzy
"In the beginner's mind the possibilities are many, in the expert's mind there are few."
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) 2 Vote(s)
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