Mike Christy Messages: 1101 Registered: February 2007 Location: Southern Maine
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The 8Ms have been put though some gigs so I can now speak more about their performance and behavior.
As mains I am very pleased with them. I find them very articulate, they do not color the source at all. There is no mushy boominess like my Sx250s, and they are LOUD.
This is my small room rig. Im powering them with a PL236 in stereo, 100Hz xover, I delay them about 5.6ms to the subs. No EQ. Subs are powered with a RMX2450 bridged.
It's a no brainer using them in small rooms for SOS gigs. but one gig they excelled at was a very reverberant room with high ceilings and lots of glass - a converted bank lobby.
I put pole sockets in a pair of Growlers, and purchased K&M speakers tilts from Mike Pyle. With 38" poles, the resulting angles and height kept bounces to a minimum and - to tell you the truth, not to be egotistical - there is no doubt it was the best system and mix Ive ever heard in that room. Very clear high, tight mids - outstanding.
For monitor duty I had a Harmonica Blues "Blowout" where I used them with Heil super cardioid PR-35s. The demanding touring talent did a quick "check 123" and were very happy with them. As a touring group, I think they are usually suspicious and weary of gear right off the bat when they roll into a new venue. They certainly were at ease with the 8Ms.
Even the warm up cover band said "wow, this is what pro monitors sound like".
The following pic is of 5 loud and distorted blues harps doing a 15 minute version of War's/Lee Oskar's "Slipping into Darkness"... unannounced to me before hand. I think my hearing is now officially shot...
Is there some sort of Mixology Certificate of Achievement for making it through this w/o any feedback?
Jeff has done a real nice job with these, built solid, great performance, they certainly seem to me to be a step or two up from your everyday run of the mill MI box. Thanks Jeff for the alternative choice.
Rain Jaudon Messages: 631 Registered: April 2004 Location: Biloxi, MS
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Really tempted to sell off my RS220s for this same rig.. SO TEMPTED!
Thanks for the updated review -
Rain Endorsing Artist for CA Guitars - Lafayette, LA http://www.CAguitars.com
Multitude Audio
Subcontracting under Magnolia Music Center
Audio Visual Installation and Service
Gulfport, Ocean Springs and Pascagula, MS
Rick Powell Messages: 202 Registered: January 2006
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Steve-
I am looking at getting this exact system for mains.
Question - in a tight space, have you ever stacked the Growlers sideways, 2 a side, with the horns coupled vertically instead of horizontally as in your photo? If so, how did it work? Also, could a pole cup be mounted on the side of 1 pair of Growlers to achieve stacking on the side, without affecting the internal construction or bracing of the Growlers?
Thanks,
RP Rick Powell
StudioLive 16:4:2
JTR Triple 8 Mains
Danley TH115 Subwoofers
Bag End TA15 Floor Monitors
Crown xti6000/4000/2000
"There are two types of people...those who divide people into two types, and those who don't."
Steve Hurt Messages: 1806 Registered: April 2004 Location: Indianapolis
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I have only run my growlers standing the way they are shown.
Once I drilled the pole hole where I did, I have been locked in for better or for worse.
They may (or may not) sound different run in a different orientation, I don't know.
If you want to drill the side, the box has plenty of wood going across there to support the weight. The only issue with a hole in the side is would the pole hole cut into the horn path inside the box. If it did, that would not be good.
My Growlers are buried in the trailer at the moment so I can't look at them to see where the hold would be. If I get a moment, I'll look tonight at our gig.
Rick Powell wrote on Sat, 17 October 2009 13:37
Steve-
I am looking at getting this exact system for mains.
Question - in a tight space, have you ever stacked the Growlers sideways, 2 a side, with the horns coupled vertically instead of horizontally as in your photo? If so, how did it work? Also, could a pole cup be mounted on the side of 1 pair of Growlers to achieve stacking on the side, without affecting the internal construction or bracing of the Growlers?
Mike Christy Messages: 1101 Registered: February 2007 Location: Southern Maine
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Rick Powell wrote on Sat, 17 October 2009 13:37
Steve-
I am looking at getting this exact system for mains.
Question - in a tight space, have you ever stacked the Growlers sideways, 2 a side, with the horns coupled vertically instead of horizontally as in your photo? If so, how did it work? Also, could a pole cup be mounted on the side of 1 pair of Growlers to achieve stacking on the side, without affecting the internal construction or bracing of the Growlers?
Thanks,
RP
Rick, Give Jeff a call or email, he may be able to install sockets like you want, and can certainty advise if want to do it yourself.
MikePisces Sound
Seacoast New Hampshire
Southern Maine
Tim McCulloch Messages: 7649 Registered: April 2004 Location: Wichita KS USA
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Rick Powell wrote on Sat, 17 October 2009 12:37
...have you ever stacked the Growlers sideways, 2 a side, with the horns coupled vertically instead of horizontally as in your photo? If so, how did it work?
Office Einstein of the Physics Police says "it doesn't matter."
As long as any identical sources are within 1/4 wavelength of each other, they will "couple" and behave as a single source at that frequency and below.
Have fun, good luck.
Tim Mc
ps. Some people swear there's a difference, but with the physical size of the box and the length of subwoofer freqs, I'd have to say "show me the Smaart/TEF/SIM screen to prove it." "Any electrical filter on an acoustical device is a spatially invariant solution to a spatially variant problem. As grownups we have to decide what part of the space to tune the solution to and let the others go." Bob McCarthy
Ivan Beaver Messages: 8441 Registered: January 2005 Location: Atlanta Ga area
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Tim McCulloch wrote on Sat, 17 October 2009 18:18
Rick Powell wrote on Sat, 17 October 2009 12:37
...have you ever stacked the Growlers sideways, 2 a side, with the horns coupled vertically instead of horizontally as in your photo? If so, how did it work?
ps. Some people swear there's a difference, but with the physical size of the box and the length of subwoofer freqs, I'd have to say "show me the Smaart/TEF/SIM screen to prove it."
Where it will "make a difference" is up close. As you move away from the stack-a pair of cabinets is not large enough to really make a difference (ie have any directivity). With a larger number of cabinets, then you will start to see differences in the layouts.
Up close to the cabinets you will get some "sensations" of different body parts "tingling" etc that will make you say one layout is better than the other. But listen at a greater distance and what you "feel" will not be different between the layouts.
That is part of the problem with measuring any loudspeaker up close. You have to get a decent distance away so the physical size/layout of the cabinet does not "interfere" with the measurement.
I have done measurements (at 10M)of 4 cabinets that were a bit larger than the Growlers-both standing up in a horizontal line-and stacked in a vertical line and there is not enough of a difference to worry about. That is because the physical size of the "array" is not large enough-as compared to the wavelengths involved-to make much of a difference (not enough to worry about anyway). Yes there were differences-but they varied with freq.
I would let the physical layout of where you can put them (or can't put them) dictate what layout you choose-not any "perceived" difference. For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.
Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?
Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs
Tim McCulloch Messages: 7649 Registered: April 2004 Location: Wichita KS USA
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Ivan Beaver wrote on Sat, 17 October 2009 17:40
Tim McCulloch wrote on Sat, 17 October 2009 18:18
Rick Powell wrote on Sat, 17 October 2009 12:37
...have you ever stacked the Growlers sideways, 2 a side, with the horns coupled vertically instead of horizontally as in your photo? If so, how did it work?
ps. Some people swear there's a difference, but with the physical size of the box and the length of subwoofer freqs, I'd have to say "show me the Smaart/TEF/SIM screen to prove it."
Where it will "make a difference" is up close. As you move away from the stack-a pair of cabinets is not large enough to really make a difference (ie have any directivity). With a larger number of cabinets, then you will start to see differences in the layouts.
Up close to the cabinets you will get some "sensations" of different body parts "tingling" etc that will make you say one layout is better than the other. But listen at a greater distance and what you "feel" will not be different between the layouts.
That is part of the problem with measuring any loudspeaker up close. You have to get a decent distance away so the physical size/layout of the cabinet does not "interfere" with the measurement.
I have done measurements (at 10M)of 4 cabinets that were a bit larger than the Growlers-both standing up in a horizontal line-and stacked in a vertical line and there is not enough of a difference to worry about. That is because the physical size of the "array" is not large enough-as compared to the wavelengths involved-to make much of a difference (not enough to worry about anyway). Yes there were differences-but they varied with freq.
I would let the physical layout of where you can put them (or can't put them) dictate what layout you choose-not any "perceived" difference.
Ivan, you caught me thinking (and listening) in the far field. Most of our gigs have most of the audience distanced some multiple of the sub array size. For some of the forum users I'm certain that's not the case so the perceived differences in the near field may be a consideration. For my use, it's a non-issue.
Have fun, good luck.
Tim Mc"Any electrical filter on an acoustical device is a spatially invariant solution to a spatially variant problem. As grownups we have to decide what part of the space to tune the solution to and let the others go." Bob McCarthy
Jeff Permanian Messages: 305 Registered: November 2006 Location: Chicago IL.
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Rick Powell wrote on Sat, 17 October 2009 12:37
Steve-
I am looking at getting this exact system for mains.
Question - in a tight space, have you ever stacked the Growlers sideways, 2 a side, with the horns coupled vertically instead of horizontally as in your photo? If so, how did it work? Also, could a pole cup be mounted on the side of 1 pair of Growlers to achieve stacking on the side, without affecting the internal construction or bracing of the Growlers?
Thanks,
RP
Mike Christy wrote on Sat, 17 October 2009 15:21
Rick, Give Jeff a call or email, he may be able to install sockets like you want, and can certainty advise if want to do it yourself.
Mike
I can custom install the pole mounts on the side however there are a few locations that it isn't possible. JTR Speakers Inc.
847-714-6878 Jeff@JTRspeakers.com http://www.JTRspeakers.com
Mike Pyle Messages: 2397 Registered: April 2004 Location: Napa, CA
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If you want to mount a pole on the side of the Growler, I would suggest using a K&M 24116 (or similar) 20mm threaded adaptor plate. These are only about an inch deep at the center, so would not intrude significantly into the horn path. You still would need to avoid routering joint areas, so best to consult with Jeff.
Steve Hurt Messages: 1806 Registered: April 2004 Location: Indianapolis
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I looked at one of my Growlers last night and a hole centered in the side would hit the horn path (don't know how many folds are in there and whether it would be a problem, so as others have mentioned, it would be best to talk to Jeff. Luckily, he is very responsive on this stuff!
Mike Christy Messages: 1101 Registered: February 2007 Location: Southern Maine
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I have exclusively used the JTR Triple-8M speakers for many gigs now, and feel I cant give a bit of an update.
Although I find myself apprehensive about leaving my QRx212s and 3-way amp rack in storage, I have yet to find a venue in my limited area where the Trip-8s do not perform well.
Each Trip-8 is powered by a side of a PL236 (~1100W), most times over a pair of Growlers powered by a side of a Crest CC4000. Processing by a Driverack, xover @100hz, with delay alignment, that's all the processing Im doing. Some rooms need mid 300hz pulled out a little (in the 01V96), some need a bit of 100hz, but nothing else is apparent.
Most gigs are reinforcement of a rock cover band with Roland TD-20 vdrums, bass, 2 gits, 5 singers, keys, etc, lots going on. This small system sounds great at this. Up close in the near field the speakers have a certain "presence" to them, nice firm mids and crisp highs. You can pick out everything in the mix, with no distortion, its very nice.
Rooms have ranged from small lower ceiling area that would would expect these speakers to easily handle, to larger hall type room with high ceilings and ballrooms. Some rooms I tilt the speakers down, especially in auditoriums where the stacks are on stage.
One repeating gig has an open room (new barn) with post and beam build, high ceiling, and a loud (biker/party) crowd - in this room where I worry the most about leaving my QRx system home, the Trip-8s performed well. SPL was as good as the QRxs. The 90 degree pattern of the Trip-8s was different than the "longer throw" horn of the EV, but this room has a large low freq build up anyways, so way in the back balance was a bit off, but not to the point of being degrading. They have house sound here - a powered Mackie system w/subs (not HD series), I still bring gear, the JTRs really out peform the powered Mackie gear.
Most recent gig on the Trip-8s/Growler combo was a hip-hop show. It was the last stop for the gents on a regional tour. I received many complements about how I was the best soundman they have had ( oh my) . I just listened to the praise and did not disclose my secret about the Growlers and Trip-8s. I was asked by management to back it down some at 11pm, as the neighbors had called the cops for sound disturbance ( probably the subs ). I suspect that the acoustic ceiling particles falling also had something to do with it. Hip-hop gigs are easy one way but difficult in another due to the "vocal" dynamics. Brickwall limiting @ -12db in the 01V96 using the COMP260 plug-in helped, but there are always peaks and a bit of clipping on the tops during yells - but not necessarily the subs. I may have to bring back the ole dbx 166 hardware. The Trip-8s handled that output just fine.
Overall I am very happy with the Trip-8 performance. For band SR they are hi-fi, sound good with little or no EQ, have a nice coverage pattern, and take lots of power while reproducing cleanly. They even shine at DJ/hip-hop stuff, as my last gig shows. For small and medium rooms I personally have not heard a better compact system. For larger rooms, I still need a few more gigs under my belt before considering selling my EVs, only time will tell.
Hope this is helpful.
Mike
[Updated on: Mon, 01 March 2010 15:55]
Pisces Sound
Seacoast New Hampshire
Southern Maine
Mike Christy Messages: 1101 Registered: February 2007 Location: Southern Maine
Has No Life
I wasn't sure to post this under a Growler review or Triple-8, seems the T8 is more appropriate.
This video was brought to my attention, and I really laugh each time I view it. Although not scientific by any means - no SPL measurements or distance given - it still really caught me off guard, and has me thinking about downsizing even more...
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