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| Re: Wanted: Acoustical Engineer for Noise Abatement Issues [message #323500 is a reply to message #323416 ] |
Fri, 16 May 2008 15:01   |
Pascal Pincosy
Messages: 627
Registered: June 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA |
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| Charlie Zureki wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 09:33 |
If it's coming from the club, it's a safe bet that the energy is coming from the subwoofers.
You have a few choices, but I'd try the cheapest first. Contact a company in California that sells Vibration Isolators. They'll probably let you "try" them for a demonstration, and you'll be able to return them if they're not damaged.
There are many different ratings for these regarding weight capacities and Isolation frequencies. Install these under your stage, wings, or subs depending on how your equipment is set up.
You need to de-couple the energy from the floor. The concrete is your path for the Energy to travel to the Condos
If that doesn't help, it may be time to call in an Engineer with Vibration experience to take some measurements with a vibrometer or an accelerameter to a analyzer.
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The energy is definitely sub frequencies. We've already tried isolators to no avail. The problem is that the sub energy excites the whole building, not just the floor. And this is another part of what makes this such a difficult problem to figure out.
Your second suggestion is exactly what I'm looking for at this point. Once we can figure out exactly how and where the vibration is being created and transmitted, then we can implement steps to fix the problem. Up to now there have been many helpful and intelligent suggestions that have done nothing except waste money and time. And we are running out of time.
Know:Audio
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US Distributor: Trabes/MG Srl
Speaker Lifts-Truss-Roof Systems
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| Re: Wanted: Acoustical Engineer for Noise Abatement Issues [message #323504 is a reply to message #323356 ] |
Fri, 16 May 2008 15:28 |
Pascal Pincosy
Messages: 627
Registered: June 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA |
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| Tom Young wrote on Fri, 16 May 2008 07:06 |
I would add that if and when the OP achieves satisfactory isolation from mechanically induced noise, airborn noise (at these low frequencies) may then become apparent.
In general; a night club next to (or below) a condo (or apartments and offices) is not a great idea 
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Tell that to the condo developer. Not only did they build condos right next door to a massive nightclub, but they anchored their foundation to a piece of the nightclubs foundation.
Know:Audio
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US Distributor: Trabes/MG Srl
Speaker Lifts-Truss-Roof Systems
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| Re: Wanted: Acoustical Engineer for Noise Abatement Issues [message #323510 is a reply to message #323472 ] |
Fri, 16 May 2008 16:19 |
 Brad Weber
Messages: 1253
Registered: December 2005
Location: Marietta, GA |
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NCAC is a good resource but do be aware that there are also many well qualified acoustical consultants who are not members of NCAC so do not necessarily limit yourself to those members.
Brad Weber
muse Audio Video
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| Re: Wanted: Acoustical Engineer for Noise Abatement Issues [message #323530 is a reply to message #323500 ] |
Fri, 16 May 2008 17:46 |
 Charlie Zureki
Messages: 533
Registered: April 2008
Location: Detroit Area |
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If the Vibration is from excitation of the bulding then you definately need an Acoustician that is familiar with Vibration.
It's likely the club's structure will have to change.
The Builder of the Club or Condo, whomever built last is probably in deep! Sounds like legal problems.
Good Luck,
Hammer
Be prepared, you'll need it!
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| Re: Wanted: Acoustical Engineer for Noise Abatement Issues [message #323742 is a reply to message #323314 ] |
Sat, 17 May 2008 19:14 |
Don Boone
Messages: 419
Registered: April 2004
Location: SE USA |
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I just want to go on record by saying that if you solve this problem (short of converting all the condo dweller's to the profoundly deaf) you deserve the Nobel Prize for Physics.
Don
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| Re: Wanted: Acoustical Engineer for Noise Abatement Issues [message #323745 is a reply to message #323742 ] |
Sat, 17 May 2008 19:25 |
Charlie Zureki
Messages: 533
Registered: April 2008
Location: Detroit Area |
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Don, It can be done. It's just a matter of whether they want to spend the Money. Or... they could always lose the Subs.
Hammer
Be prepared, you'll need it!
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| Re: Wanted: Acoustical Engineer for Noise Abatement Issues [message #323750 is a reply to message #323742 ] |
Sat, 17 May 2008 19:52 |
Charlie Zureki
Messages: 533
Registered: April 2008
Location: Detroit Area |
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Apparently, it's not Sound that's the problem it's Energy in the form of Vibration. Much harder to deal with when it's exciting the whole club.
Cheers,
Hammer
Be prepared, you'll need it!
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| Re: Wanted: Acoustical Engineer for Noise Abatement Issues [message #323805 is a reply to message #323750 ] |
Sat, 17 May 2008 23:19 |
Brad Weber
Messages: 1253
Registered: December 2005
Location: Marietta, GA |
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| Charlie Zureki wrote on Sat, 17 May 2008 20:52 |
Apparently, it's not Sound that's the problem it's Energy in the form of Vibration. Much harder to deal with when it's exciting the whole club.
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That's why it is almost always better to address noise and vibration problems at the source. It is usually much more effective both physically and financially to try to prevent the vibration from getting into the structure than it is to try to deal with it once it is there.
Brad Weber
muse Audio Video
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| Re: Wanted: Acoustical Engineer for Noise Abatement Issues [message #323929 is a reply to message #323925 ] |
Sun, 18 May 2008 20:59 |
Charlie Zureki
Messages: 533
Registered: April 2008
Location: Detroit Area |
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Yes Ivan,
I thought I eluded to getting the right expertise, and that the cost for a fix would be expensive, in one of my previous posts.
And, you're absolutely correct that the Owner may not want to spend the money to implement any suggestions the Consultant proposes, but, that's the Owners perogative.
I only hope the OP didn't make any promises of correcting the problem.
I've seen too many inexperienced people (not refering to the OP), that have taken contracts to install Sound or Video, and ended up financially ruined because of Law Suits.
Cheers,
Hammer
Be prepared, you'll need it!
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| Re: Wanted: Acoustical Engineer for Noise Abatement Issues [message #323946 is a reply to message #323929 ] |
Sun, 18 May 2008 21:54 |
Pascal Pincosy
Messages: 627
Registered: June 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA |
Has No Life |
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| Charlie Zureki wrote on Sun, 18 May 2008 18:59 |
I thought I eluded to getting the right expertise, and that the cost for a fix would be expensive, in one of my previous posts.
And, you're absolutely correct that the Owner may not want to spend the money to implement any suggestions the Consultant proposes, but, that's the Owners perogative.
I only hope the OP didn't make any promises of correcting the problem.
I've seen too many inexperienced people (not refering to the OP), that have taken contracts to install Sound or Video, and ended up financially ruined because of Law Suits.
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Did you guys miss the part about funding not being an issue? This is a multimillion-dollar installation we're talking about here. We can't afford to NOT fix the problem. So Charlie, please don't hold back dude. It's going to be cheaper to hire the right person than to hire someone who makes bad recommendations meaning we pay twice for construction work.
FTR I'm the technical director at the club, not a contractor...
Know:Audio
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US Distributor: Trabes/MG Srl
Speaker Lifts-Truss-Roof Systems
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