Forum Home » Sound Reinforcement » The Basement » Buying mic and pre - which should it be?
| Buying mic and pre - which should it be? [message #323000] |
Thu, 15 May 2008 01:13  |
 Chony Milecki
Messages: 96
Registered: December 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY |
Nothing Better To Do |
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I would like to spend around $5G on a great mic and preamp for my recording studio. If you could only get one mic and one preamp around this price range - what would you choose? It has to be a do-it-all mic - for vocal and instrument recordings.
Thanks, Chony
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| Re: Buying mic and pre - which should it be? [message #323010 is a reply to message #323002 ] |
Thu, 15 May 2008 06:26  |
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Steve Hurt
Messages: 871
Registered: April 2004
Location: Indianapolis |
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| Alexandre Richer wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 03:05 |
This is the live forum, and we like microphones that work in the circumstances and mic pres that don't sound like anything at all.
You may have better luck in the recording forums:
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/
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Mic's that work in the circumstances is exactly what you want for live AND for recording. However, the circumstances are very different in the studio compared to live 
In live situations, isolation is king (directional mics are preferred). However, in recording, with isolation booths and one track at a time recording etc., isolation is not near as much of a problem so large diaphragm condensers that pick up "too much - for live" are often popular.
Like most sound preference questions, the answer is it depends!
For mic pre's, the answer is similar, because different mics and pre's react differently together.
However, the OP asked what people would get for general use. I'll take a wild stab at it, not knowing what music you record or what room you record it in (so basically this answer only really applies if you are recording the music that I record, and doing that recording at my place)
Pre: API 512c
Great all around pre. Works very well for pretty much anything. Great for kick, bass, guitar, great built in DI. Donald Fagan's Nightfly was recorded through an API board that used those pre's and it's supposed to be an example of good clean (although Andy will probably say something like sterile) studio recording.
Mic: Neumann U47 (oops, blew your budget off the side of the boat on that one!)
No one mic is best for all purposes. However, if I had to pick a "desert island mic", the U47 would be it. Of course they aren't made any more and a good one will cost you more than 5k! They really are amazing mics. There are ton's of mics out there that are sold as U-47 clones. Of course, none of them sound the same. Many are good though. Listen to every mic you can. Spend some money on some time at a studio with a big mic locker and listen. a lot.
Fletcher's and Klauss's forums on PSW's R/E/P recording site are good places to discuss botique mic's.
[Updated on: Thu, 15 May 2008 06:31]
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| Re: Buying mic and pre - which should it be? [message #323102 is a reply to message #323020 ] |
Thu, 15 May 2008 12:41 |
Jeff Babcock
Messages: 944
Registered: September 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada |
Has No Life |
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Chony,
IMHO no matter how great a great mic and pre might be, it all comes down to the mix. Too many people have great gear and terrible mixes so that you'd never know they had great gear when you hear what they produce.
If it were me I would buy about a $1000ish mic for vocal duties, a couple $500ish multipurpose mics, and a couple varieties of sub $1000 preamps. I have had good success with Rode mics and also the upper-end Shure KSM series. You'd still have money left over, it would be more versatile, and unless you have clients beating down your door to have Neumann mics, nobody is likely to have any clue what mic or pre you used.
FWIW I have even used the cheap MXL consenders with reasonable success, and once you get above the $500 range most mics are now very good and the differences become smaller and smaller.
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| Re: Buying mic and pre - which should it be? [message #323132 is a reply to message #323102 ] |
Thu, 15 May 2008 14:32 |
Charlie Zureki
Messages: 533
Registered: April 2008
Location: Detroit Area |
Has No Life |
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Absolutely Jeff...
I could never understand someone breaking out the old U47's, U269's, U87's or R 77's to record a distorted, screaming guitar,
what a waste of "Mic" potential.
Good advice to buy a few good quality Mics as opposed to spending it all on one.
Hammer
Be prepared, you'll need it!
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| Re: Buying mic and pre - which should it be? [message #323170 is a reply to message #323132 ] |
Thu, 15 May 2008 16:26 |
Art Welter
Messages: 445
Registered: October 2007
Location: New Mexico |
Has No Life |
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I agree with Charlie and Jeff. I have found choosing the right mic for the job to be important, and the price has less and less to do with it now that close tolerances can be achieved cheaply. I have used the MXL large and small diaphragm condensers, and they are quiet and sensitive, and have a “flavor”, as do most well respected studio microphones.
Very few engineers other than orchestral recorders get very excited about “neutral” mics, it is really up to you to decide what flavor is right for you, the instruments, and the room.
Some voices/instruments have detail that is better not heard, others benefit from microscopic detail. If I'm not sure from listening with my ears which mic I want to use, I'll set up 2 or three and audition them, and also weigh the musicians opinion- they will usually give the best performance with the mic they are most comfortable with.
If you are looking for dead clean and accurate, B & K makes several models. I have a pair of 4004, but find I prefer the sound of many of the mics in my kit that cost less than 10% of what they do for most applications. I mainly use them for test mics, they are flat 10 -30K, and have less than 1% THAD @148 dB, >120dB dynamic range.
Mics are like tools, sometimes you need a bulldozer, sometimes a trowel, sometimes a paintbrush. Having a $5000 dollar paint brush won’t help when a $50 shovel is the right tool.
That said, my most “go to” recording mic for everything but piano is an EV RE 27.
Art Welter
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| Re: Buying mic and pre - which should it be? [message #323242 is a reply to message #323230 ] |
Thu, 15 May 2008 20:12 |
Charlie Zureki
Messages: 533
Registered: April 2008
Location: Detroit Area |
Has No Life |
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Chony,
You should read as many product reviews regarding Microphones as possible. If you ask a hundred people, you'll likely get a hundred answers. Many of the good people here can give you advice of models they like, but in the end, you'll have to make the decision. If you have $5000. to spend on a Mic and a Pre... you should be able to get a few great microphones. Look for atleast one good multipurpose Mic, and when it comes to Vocal Mics look for a "legendary" Mic that's still being sold today.
Try different Mics before you buy them... try A/B comparisons at your local equipment provider.
Good Luck,
Hammer
Be prepared, you'll need it!
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| Re: Buying mic and pre - which should it be? [message #323312 is a reply to message #323230 ] |
Fri, 16 May 2008 03:50 |
Art Welter
Messages: 445
Registered: October 2007
Location: New Mexico |
Has No Life |
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In my room, which is subject to outside noises, I often prefer the RE-27 to LDC mics for most vocals, because it does not pick up every bird noise and car that drives by. If your room is not super isolated, you need to keep that in mind or you may have to re-take or overdub parts if you are using LDC mics that are super sensitive and nearly omnidirectional.
The RE-20 and 27 sound great off axis, and have hardly any proximic effect, very important for wavy head vocalists. The RE-27 has more output level than an RE-20, and more top end, and three rolloff switches to tailor the response.
Cardioid mics can minimize room problems, but if they don’t sound good off-axis, can make them worse.
It is good to read reviews to get a general perception of what will work, but Hammer’s suggestion is right on, go to a place where you can listen to a variety of mics, then make your own decision from what you hear through them. Listen to the various mics at various distances from room boundaries to see what the polar response is like, as well as checking out from the side and at various distances from the mic.
Before the checkout get real familiar with your own headphones, bring them, and your headphone amp too if you have one, otherwise you are comparing new transducers with unknown transducers, which makes it rather difficult to tell what you are hearing.
Since you are asking these questions, you are probably new to the biz, and your clients will probably be too. You are in the position where you can actually decide what tools you use for yourself, rather than provide what everyone is used to.
Have fun!
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| Re: Buying mic and pre - which should it be? [message #323541 is a reply to message #323478 ] |
Fri, 16 May 2008 18:35 |
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Ned Ward
Messages: 103
Registered: April 2008
Location: South Bay, CA |
Has No Life |
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Agree on previous comments to look elsewhere for advice from people who know their stuff. Here's what I have found:
Mics -
It's personal preference, and one mic may be excellent on your voice and crappy on another's.
SM58 - some have used this for recordings.
Shure SM7B - a lot of people like this one as well. It's affordable, and good.
There are plenty of large condensers that either emulate a 87/47 or are slightly different. People are happy with the Rode series, and I like my KSM27. I've also bought the MXL large/small condenser kit when I needed more mics, but it doesn't work as well on my voice.
Go to a good music store where you can audition these yourself.
Preamps -
The Chandler pre is excellent, as is the API. with your budget, you could buy a 500 series lunchbox and fill it with 500 series pres all with different tonal flavors - the 500 series is the hot format these days and a lot of people are either entering this or offering 500-frame versions of theirs.
Also good - Great River ME-1NV, Summit 2BA-221, etc.
Bang for the buck - a lot of people also like the Universal Audio 610 mic preamp, you can also get it as the LA-610, so you get the pre-amp and the compressor in one package.
Even if you're planning to mix in the box, get a good hardware compressor - it's great to have a top-notch vocal chain ready to go that works with your voice.
Again, you'll need to go to a good music store where you can audition these with the microphone for yourself.
Low End Rig - Works for us (in case it wasn't clear from my posts I'm a newbie)
Mackie 1642VLZ, Lexicon MPX200, SPX90, dbx 1046
Mains: Driverack PA, QSC RMX1850HD, JBL JRX115x2
Monitors: Behringer Feedback Destroyer, dbx 231, Mackie SRM450x3
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| Re: Buying mic and pre - which should it be? [message #323545 is a reply to message #323541 ] |
Fri, 16 May 2008 18:48 |
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RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS
Messages: 1938
Registered: August 2005
Location: Surface of the Sun, It's ... |
Has No Life |
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I haven't kept up on Mic pres in the last several years but if I could have only one great mic it would be an AKG C12vr. There's your $5000 budget there but it really is a very versatile mic that sounds terrific. http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,210,pid,210,n odeid,2,_language,EN.html
Of course I would never want to have just one mic so there are several less expensive mics to consider such as 414s and 57s and and 81s and the like.
Ryan Jenkins
"Two days until the end of when I don't know what to think. Three days until I start the cycle all over again!"
Please visit my website at http://www.murphygirl.com
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| Re: Buying mic and pre - which should it be? [message #323639 is a reply to message #323230 ] |
Sat, 17 May 2008 09:02 |
Stephen Payne
Messages: 165
Registered: December 2007
Location: Chestertown MD |
Has No Life |
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| Chony Milecki wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 20:38 |
Thank you all - this is very helpful. I think I will take the advice of everyone here to get a collection instead.
What do you recommend for a vocal mic? That is really the bulk of what I do, and I need it to be a great mic.
Thanks,
Chony
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Great!!
Make sure your check out the AT4050 and the other 40?? ATs and the Sure KSMs.
Steve
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| Re: Buying mic and pre - which should it be? [message #323647 is a reply to message #323230 ] |
Sat, 17 May 2008 09:25 |
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Ned Ward
Messages: 103
Registered: April 2008
Location: South Bay, CA |
Has No Life |
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| Chony Milecki wrote on Thu, 15 May 2008 17:38 |
What do you recommend for a vocal mic? That is really the bulk of what I do, and I need it to be a great mic.
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What type of vocals? This makes a huge difference as to the type of microphone.
The C12vr would be nice!
John Peluso microphones http://www.pelusomicrophonelab.com are getting lots of good reviews, and not just because of the special they did on NPR a month ago. bodies are made in China, but diaphrams are assembled and hand tuned here in the US. He has a variety of different mics that either break new ground or are inspired by old versions; his P12 is inspired by the C12 http://www.pelusomicrophonelab.com/P12.html
He also does repair/restoration work; a colleague has some old Sony 800 mics that need work; he called up John and talked to him, and will be sending him the mics.
Low End Rig - Works for us (in case it wasn't clear from my posts I'm a newbie)
Mackie 1642VLZ, Lexicon MPX200, SPX90, dbx 1046
Mains: Driverack PA, QSC RMX1850HD, JBL JRX115x2
Monitors: Behringer Feedback Destroyer, dbx 231, Mackie SRM450x3
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