| Integrating Existing Gear [message #320764] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 01:32  |
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 Chad Johnson
Messages: 118
Registered: April 2004
Location: Kelowna, BC |
Has No Life |
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What are some of your opinions/policies of using existing gear? Once again I am having trouble with a quote and deciding on proposing a smaller package of better gear to supplement existing stuff or cheaper gear but a whole package. Its a set budget figure, so using some existing equipment helps.
The client is a school, its a multipurpose room. Unfortunately, not much can be salvaged, but they have four Peavey SPG1 speakers that appear to be working and sound "okay". I don't know anything about them (except they're Peavey...) and don't know what they'll do. I researched them, they can be biamped and are a 80X40 horn. They're too wide to run 2 per side as they are, but they'll likely stay that way if I keep them.
If I keep the Peavey's, I can supply subs and a GB2, DSP, dynamics, FX, powered monitors, more/superior mics/DI's/stands/cables, etc.
OR
If I take the Peavey's out, I'm down to less wireless, limited mic/DI/stand/cable pack, an LX7II, and probably a speaker system that is still not optimum.
Future sale for a better speaker system is not likely anytime soon. What do you guys do in this type of scenario?
Thanks
--Chad
"Put a 58 on it."
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| Re: Integrating Existing Gear [message #320793 is a reply to message #320791 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 07:06  |
Adam Kane
Messages: 323
Registered: August 2004
Location: Battle Creek, MI |
Has No Life |
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What Ivan said.
And I'm always a little scared to re-use something like speakers...especially something I'm either not that familiar with or don't know what sort of usage/abuse they may have been put through before I came along.
Here's a scenerio:
You put in the nice console and good quality outboard/dsp/power and reuse the old speakers with their current (obviously incorrect) placement/application. You may have everything set up/tuned as best as it can be done. At the end of the day, it still doesn't sound all that great. But the system as a whole has your name on it now.
I'm all for trying to save the client some money where appropriate, but not at the cost of future business from them or others who may use/hear the rig. Bottom line: make sure they know exactly what to expect for their money (or lack thereof).
Adam "Drumrkane"
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| Re: Integrating Existing Gear [message #320802 is a reply to message #320791 ] |
Thu, 08 May 2008 08:16 |
Brad Weber
Messages: 1253
Registered: December 2005
Location: Marietta, GA |
Has No Life |
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I completely agree with the comments regarding how to address the potential implications on warranty and service. Many contractors avoid reusing equipment unless they can at least first assess that it is performing properly and in good condition, they do not want to take responsibility for an item that is already a problem. It also makes sense to be very careful to specifically state that any issues directly or indirectly related to the existing equipment are excluded from any equipment or system warranties.
I will add that it may also be a matter of whether the existing equipment is what you would have used or at least directly comparable. Do you potentially have to 'dumb down' a system or compromise the results to use the existing equipment? Would you be reusing the existing equipment because of the results you think you can get with it or in spite of the results you think you will get?
Also, don't forget to address any additional costs you may incur in order to reuse the equipment. Owners often seem to think that by reusing existing equipment they save the full value but there are often costs incurred in using a product you don't know or typically use, as well as in simply having to deal with the physical equipment itself. An extreme example would be something like reusing an existing AMX control system when you are a totally Crestron house, there would likely be some significant additional costs for you to integrate and modify the existing control system and programming due simply to it not being a product you are familiar with.
I would be especially hesitant with using existing speakers unless they are would be a good choice for the application in the first place. If they are compromising the resulting system performance then I would certainly suggest putting that in writing and getting it accepted.
Brad Weber
muse Audio Video
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| Re: Integrating Existing Gear [message #321437 is a reply to message #320802 ] |
Sat, 10 May 2008 10:18 |
Duane Massey
Messages: 1282
Registered: January 2006
Location: Houston, Tx |
Has No Life |
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I make this type of decision on a each-case criteria. Sometimes you just walk away, sometimes you use what you are comfortable with. All the above comments are valid, but you also have to factor in the obvious "do you really want/need the work?" issue.
I do quite a bit of partial upgrade work, and it's quite often challenging, and a bit of a risk. Being that I am a small independent contractor it is a reality for me.
Duane Massey
Houston, Texas, USA
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| Re: Integrating Existing Gear [message #321499 is a reply to message #320764 ] |
Sat, 10 May 2008 15:57 |
Craig Hauber
Messages: 257
Registered: December 2004
Location: Simi Valley California |
Has No Life |
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many places were oversold at a high mark-up the existing gear they have, that's why they are more attached to it, (mainly because they think it is worth more than it is.)
7 years old is my cutoff for speakers that are in good condition, way less for rack gear and amps. If it is in rough shape or in an environment that is rough on it (such as nightclubs to speakers, or restaurant kitchens to equipment racks)then that is taken into consideration.
Many times you don't have complete access to the gear until you land the job so if you've promised to re-use gear that you later find is dead then you have to eat it. Likewise you don't want to spend hours on a complete evaluation of gear before the bid because that is money out of your pocket on a job you may not land. So existing gear does have a catch-22 involved.
If you know the gear and it's condition offering a trade-in is an option. Generally I mark up new product high enough that with a trade-in it still above my cost plus shipping. (This generally only works on new gear that isn't available with prices on the internet.) Sometimes the trade-in gear turns out to be garbage but you do it to get the sale and usually it still has parts value.
My home stereo is full of rather decent consumer grade gear pulled out of installations as well as my live sound rig is full of decent EAW's and cabling out of nightclubs. It's also cool to have a boneyard of workable gear for that one "oh-by-the-way" near the end of a large job (such as a DJ booth monitor or bathroom hallway fill)
Craig Hauber
CSA Productions Inc.
Simi Valley & Burbank CA
www.csaproductionsinc.com
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