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| Re: got growlers? i want reviews + pics! [message #318934 is a reply to message #318859 ] |
Fri, 02 May 2008 20:03   |
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 John Halliburton
Messages: 745
Registered: April 2004
Location: Chicago area |
Has No Life |
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William,
Yes, I agree, they would provide more bass, but as Ivan points out, the folks in the front center would be dying from bass. The first row is only 9' back from the edge of the stage, and I'd have to set the subs on the floor, so they'd be about 7' from them at that point.
What I get from the setup shown in the photo is good coverage, my Trik Traps elevated to a very nice height-they provide coverage to the balcony seats nicely even-and really good sightlines. Only the widest seats in the first few rows will have a bit of sightline issue.
If I need more output in that room I'd stack the speakers on the landing in each corner formed by the proscenium and adjacent wall, gaining some boundary reinforcement. I can also add more subs and tops there too, there's just enough of a footprint. An added bonus is sightlines improve even more then too.
I've had a full house listening to this exact system, 650 reunion crazy local Irish/Folk music fans with their favorite six piece band doing a 20th anniversary show, and everyone could hear the show no problem. Now I know I'd need to double FOH for an electric group of some sort at the least.
Best regards,
John
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| Re: got growlers? i want reviews + pics! [message #319016 is a reply to message #318869 ] |
Sat, 03 May 2008 08:35 |
Mike {AB} Butler
Messages: 1686
Registered: April 2004
Location: Lynchburg, VA |
Has No Life |
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Ivan,
While I can agree with you.. IF the bass is lethelly loud.. my experience has been that people are less bothered by bass when sitting near the subs than they are by highs at the same volume level from the tops.
Some years back, I did a center floor sub for a church. Was testing it when a member of the congregation who was a Hi-Fi enthusiast showed up. He was REAL impressed with the quality and amplitude of the bass. He asked how in the world can the front rows tolerate something that loud. I said, go sit up in the second row, and see for yourself. His response, "no way, it'll blow my ears out!". Still, he ended up doing so, and was astonished to find the bass wasn't perceptibly greater than it was at the back! Plus, I have seen so many churches that do this.. and the front rows aren't blown away. I know you have, too. 
As I said, I will agree.. but only if the subs are waayyy loud!
Regards,
Mike Butler
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| Re: got growlers? i want reviews + pics! [message #319029 is a reply to message #319021 ] |
Sat, 03 May 2008 09:24 |
Michael Hedden Jr.
Messages: 133
Registered: April 2004
Location: Atlanta |
Has No Life |
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I think the whole question of sub placement especially in larger rooms has two primary points. One is practical, you bring the subs in, it's the big box that may or may not be flyable and even if you can fly it, it's typically big so you put them on the floor with spacing that guarantees uneven coverage, and real issues with the inverse square law, thus the whole "where to put the subs" discussion.
The second is physics, front loaded subs due to their inherent lack of sensitivity compared to horn loaded subs, benefit/need boundary coupling just to get close to the desired levels. Three to four times the ground stacked subs need to be placed close to at least one if not two or three stiff boundaries.
As Ivan has said if you ever get a chance to hear properly flown subs the even/consistency of bass response over the entire coverage area will change the way you look at it and I don't think you'll ever go back to them on the floor again as your preferred way of doing it.
Mike Hedden
Danley Sound Labs, Inc.
[Updated on: Sat, 03 May 2008 11:56]
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| Re: got growlers? i want reviews + pics! [message #319581 is a reply to message #319029 ] |
Mon, 05 May 2008 08:42 |
Mike {AB} Butler
Messages: 1686
Registered: April 2004
Location: Lynchburg, VA |
Has No Life |
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Mike,
I would certainly not argue with the experience you and Ivan probably have that a horn loaded sub can be flown with much better results than a front loaded sub.. just that I have only ever seen ONE system with flown subs that worked properly. And I would certainly agree that having a boundary, such as the floor, for a front loaded design box seems to mitigate a lot of the issues that flying creates for that design type box.
Another thing, though, is I know I see riders that say very clearly about NO FLOWN SUBS.. probably because they are thinking about conventional front loaded boxes sounding so poor up in the air.
Anyway, I'm not contesting your experiences.. only relating mine.. which I have not had the privilege of getting to work with as much in fine equipment as you all have. 
Regards,
Mike Butler
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Re: got growlers? i want reviews + pics!
