Forum Home » Sound Reinforcement » LAB: The Classic Live Audio Board » Battery Powered "Biggish" PA System
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| Re: Battery Powered "Biggish" PA System [message #321245 is a reply to message #320839 ] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 13:43   |
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Jason,
I was thinking about this last night before I went to bed, and I agree that you need a different rig than those EV's. That being said I think you are also going at it all wrong when you said you won't need to reproduce anything under 70Hz. I think it would be more like nothing under like 230Hz because the sound wouldn't be able to carry itself with frequencies under that. You won't be able to get that much clarity over that much space with 2 EV ZX5s. If another cabinet can, I don't know.
Solution time. I am assuming that since the mallet pad is MIDI it will be controlled by a laptop. You could put your speakers at the 30 yard lines, get a wireless transmitter and send the signal to the control that way, and power it with a small generator like that honda.
As marching bands are EXTREMELY loud, the electric instrumentalist will probably need to hear themselves. You could split the signal so the wireless goes to the control, and the other signal goes to something like the Roland Micro-CUBE (http://www.roland.com/PRODUCTS/en/Micro-CUBE/index.html). It takes six AA batteries and will run for 20 hours. Plus, it comes in a variety o different colors to match uniforms!  ...Or you could put them on ears with the mixer, or a headphone pre-amp, or yadda yadda yadda.
This also is all assuming also that he/she is walking around during the show and wont be able to hear themselves.
How do you tell a genuine Stradivarius from a copy?
The real one burns with a blue flame.
-Dick Rees
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| Re: Battery Powered "Biggish" PA System [message #321301 is a reply to message #321245 ] |
Fri, 09 May 2008 17:12 |
 jason misterka
Messages: 70
Registered: April 2004
Location: Virginia |
Should Get Out More |
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Nick,
You are right that the EVs won't throw 250 or below very far, but they are only looking for a "10% improvement" Direct quote from the director. The angles of a stadium are tough. And they can not drive anything on the field, or roll anything on the field. Everything has to be carried from the edge of the sideline next to the wall. But if they can cover the first couple rows with 100hz, I think he will be happy.
On their home field, we do this gig with Turbosound Aspects and if you don't know that box, let's just say it gets very very loud if you want it to. And we use most of it. Obviously a PA of that caliber is not the answer for a marching band doing away games with no good AC and no good operator and not really a good way to transport it (their box truck can't be ALL speakers, as they have many other things to carry.)
We are pretty much locked into EV ZX5s at this point, but just as an FYI there will be 4 for FOH and 2 for the percussion rig monitors. I would high pass the PA at 130hz or so, but there was concern about the lower notes on the midi percussion devices.
So nothing is perfect, but I think it will get them that extra 10% they are looking for on the percussion and the soloists. This is actually a new and fairly small marching band, and a big deal football team.
Thanks for your thoughts on this, when they told me what they wanted originally I though it was completely impossible without us following them around in the sound truck, but after talking it through with them, it may work out the way they want if it's packaged right...
Jason
| Nick Aghababian wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 14:43 |
Jason,
I was thinking about this last night before I went to bed, and I agree that you need a different rig than those EV's. That being said I think you are also going at it all wrong when you said you won't need to reproduce anything under 70Hz. I think it would be more like nothing under like 230Hz because the sound wouldn't be able to carry itself with frequencies under that. You won't be able to get that much clarity over that much space with 2 EV ZX5s. If another cabinet can, I don't know.
Solution time. I am assuming that since the mallet pad is MIDI it will be controlled by a laptop. You could put your speakers at the 30 yard lines, get a wireless transmitter and send the signal to the control that way, and power it with a small generator like that honda.
As marching bands are EXTREMELY loud, the electric instrumentalist will probably need to hear themselves. You could split the signal so the wireless goes to the control, and the other signal goes to something like the Roland Micro-CUBE (http://www.roland.com/PRODUCTS/en/Micro-CUBE/index.html). It takes six AA batteries and will run for 20 hours. Plus, it comes in a variety o different colors to match uniforms! ...Or you could put them on ears with the mixer, or a headphone pre-amp, or yadda yadda yadda.
This also is all assuming also that he/she is walking around during the show and wont be able to hear themselves.
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| Re: Battery Powered "Biggish" PA System [message #321465 is a reply to message #321301 ] |
Sat, 10 May 2008 13:32 |
Craig Hauber
Messages: 234
Registered: December 2004
Location: Simi Valley California |
Has No Life |
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-just some more ideas
Look into community R series install speakers. Very efficient, horn-loaded, relatively light plastic enclosures and in the same price range as the EV's. They might need some customizing to make more easily portable, -the mounting bracket does work okay as a handle though. I know these speakers work great in stadiums for installs and get very loud with minimal power.
Also look into (don't laugh) car stereo amplifiers. They make some big ones now and they eliminate the large expensive inverter system required. You can use a smaller sine-wave inverter for the console and drive. I've seen this done for parades with much success and with larger more efficient speakers, the amps don't need to be as large in output for the same coverage.
Craig Hauber
CSA Productions Inc.
Simi Valley & Burbank CA
www.csaproductionsinc.com
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| Re: Battery Powered "Biggish" PA System [message #321606 is a reply to message #321465 ] |
Sat, 10 May 2008 23:06 |
Tom Bourke
Messages: 299
Registered: April 2004
Location: Wisconsin |
Has No Life |
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| Craig Hauber wrote on Sat, 10 May 2008 13:32 |
-just some more ideas
Look into community R series install speakers. Very efficient, horn-loaded, relatively light plastic enclosures and in the same price range as the EV's. They might need some customizing to make more easily portable, -the mounting bracket does work okay as a handle though. I know these speakers work great in stadiums for installs and get very loud with minimal power.
Also look into (don't laugh) car stereo amplifiers. They make some big ones now and they eliminate the large expensive inverter system required. You can use a smaller sine-wave inverter for the console and drive. I've seen this done for parades with much success and with larger more efficient speakers, the amps don't need to be as large in output for the same coverage.
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All parades I do now use a car amp with a small inverter for the mixer, mostly because I don't have a 12 V mixer. I did keep a few car audio toys from my younger days and they work VERY well for this sort of thing.
I have a mild form of Dyslexia that affects my ability to spell. I do use spell checking to help but it does not always work. My form of Dyslexia does not affect my reading. Dyslexics of the world untie! http://incertclevername.com
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| Re: Battery Powered "Biggish" PA System [message #321872 is a reply to message #321301 ] |
Sun, 11 May 2008 20:29 |
Geoff Doane
Messages: 375
Registered: April 2004
Location: Halifax, NS |
Has No Life |
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Here's a UPS that might do the job.
http://www.liebert.com/product_pages/Product.aspx?id=56& hz=60
We use the 6KVA version of this to power an SSL 4000 G+ in a studio. The console has two PSUs that draw over 15A each, and a few peripherals, so I know the UPS is up to the job. It is dual conversion, and also cleans up noise on the AC line. We have the tower version, but it is available in a 4 space rack mount as well. Full load run time is 7 minutes, but you can add additional battery packs. It's not light, but is still under 100 lbs. (without additional batteries). At half load, run time more than doubles.
What I'm not certain about is if you can start it without it being connected to the line first. It does require a ground connection, which may be a bit tricky in a portable situation.
It does have an audible alarm, although it may be possible to disable that with the supplied software and a computer.
FWIW, I spent a summer playing on a parade float over 30 years ago. The sound system used six deep cycle car batteries, and specially modified Tapco mixers and Kustom VII Bi-amp slaves (power amps in today's parlance). The Kustom VIIs drove four 12+1 monitor wedges sitting upright, and modified for bi-amping. The Tapcos had the power transformer and rectifier bypassed, with ±12V coming from two of the batteries. I think the Kustom amps used ±36V rails inside, using all 6 batteries in series. The rig would run for up to 6 hours between charges (the longest parade was almost 4 hours), and could drown out anything except a pipe band  . Not bad for a total power of about 400W back in the day!
And best of all, there was no generator roaring away to compete with  .
GTD
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