Forum Home » Sound Reinforcement » Road Test » JTR Speakers "Growler" is Going on a Road Test ( ) 1 Vote(s)
| Re: Evan vs. the Growlers, round 1 [message #272230 is a reply to message #272174 ] |
Fri, 14 December 2007 10:31   |
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Evan Kirkendall
Messages: 4844
Registered: November 2004
Location: Abingdon, MD |
Has No Life |
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| Steve Hurt wrote on Fri, 14 December 2007 07:33 |
Evan,
Are you passing on the Growlers because (in your opinion):
a) one Growler won't out-thump one 2 x 18?
or
b) two Growlers won't out-thump one 2 x 18?
(my opinion is: if it's "a", I agree, if it's "b", you definitely did something wrong)
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Hi Steve,
2 Growlers can outrun 1 QW218, but 2 QW218's win IMO. 4 Growlers, well, I dont know what would win there.
This weekend will be interesting. My money is on EAW SB1000z's right now, but who knows after tomorrow!
Evan
HarfordSound
ATL Tour Blog
"No, It's not too loud. You're just too old."
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| Re: Evan vs. the Growlers, round 1 [message #272295 is a reply to message #272283 ] |
Fri, 14 December 2007 13:32 |
 Tim McCulloch
Messages: 4010
Registered: April 2004
Location: Wichita KS USA |
Has No Life |
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| Steve Hurt wrote on Fri, 14 December 2007 13:09 |
| Evan Kirkendall wrote on Fri, 14 December 2007 11:36 |
The gigs I used them at were my "Smaller" gigs(>100 people), and they didnt cut it. I'd need 4 min for small shows, and probably 6 or 8 for larger gigs.
Evan
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I'm not a "95 db is too loud" kind of guy, but I have to say:
A PL6.0 II cliping into 2 growlers center coupled at a 100 person show not being loud enough to keep up with the tops = you will be deaf soon.
At least you'll be able to "ring" in the New Year(s) w/tinitus!
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I suspect that Evan is having trouble keeping up with stage levels, and since he has an issue with the output of the Growlers, I suspect that he has enough top boxes for the gig, but now sees how much LF it takes to keep up with them, AND get over the stage wash from the SVT god.
Some of you recall my fairly glowing reports of the Growlers at the NYC Sub Shoot last January. I was impressed by how well they played, particularly for the size and weight. I'm still impressed, but when the inevitable comparison questions came I was reluctant to answer as I don't use the subs most people who look at Growlers are using. I also don't do the kinds of gigs Evan or most of the Lounge posters do. But for the screamo emo things that seem to predominate rock at the moment, a pair of ANY small or MI sub will not be enough. Getting over the SVT on stage, with the player's LF boosted 10dB will not be done even with 4 small subs no matter the room size.
TH-115s would be a good choice, I think.
Also, while we're talking about the MD listening event, I think folks should be very careful about trying to make comparisons to speakers not present.... as in, DON'T. These types of listening events are only valid in that space, only among those products present and playing, and only valid with the program material used for the listening. Thank you, please drive thru.. 
Have fun, good luck!
Tim Mc
"It's not your fault if he can't play the part. Let him suck out loud."
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| Re: Evan vs. the Growlers, round 1 [message #272327 is a reply to message #272295 ] |
Fri, 14 December 2007 14:59 |
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Evan Kirkendall
Messages: 4844
Registered: November 2004
Location: Abingdon, MD |
Has No Life |
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Yep, Tim nailed it. Friday night was a very "live" room, and stage volume was around 101dBA, with no mics on. Just adding vocals put me up to around 105-107dBA. I was ~30' back, and had plugs in the whole night. Not fun...
Saturday night was a little better room, and I was only around 101dBA, @ 50'.
Evan
HarfordSound
ATL Tour Blog
"No, It's not too loud. You're just too old."
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| Re: Evan vs. the Growlers, round 1 [message #272348 is a reply to message #272327 ] |
Fri, 14 December 2007 16:39 |
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Jim Duyck
Messages: 277
Registered: July 2005
Location: San Angelo, TX |
Has No Life |
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It tis unfortunate that you couldn't have 4 for the road test...but my limited experience says that 4 Growlers > 2 JBL SR4719X's hands down (our own upgrade) and 4 Growlers on 2 RMX 2450's bridged mon > 2 JBL SRX728's on 2 PLX 3602's bridged mono (my church's setup) as well.
But I agree - you seem like the 4 per side kinda guy and with 2 Community's per side as well, I bet you could peel the paint off of whatever you wanted to.
You should talk to Jeff about a prototype that might be up your alley.
[Updated on: Fri, 04 January 2008 22:31]
~jim~
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| Re: Evan vs. the Growlers, round 1 [message #272722 is a reply to message #272689 ] |
Sun, 16 December 2007 04:01 |
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Richard Rajchel
Messages: 238
Registered: August 2006
Location: Wisconsin, USA |
Has No Life |
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I didn't based on the specs listed. I did by the sensitivity specs on each manufacturers page. JBLs 98 dB 1w/1m according to JBLs data sheet. JTRs are 100 dB 1w/1m according to the specs on their web page.
The key though is that when you use 2 horn loaded cabs together they get a 6dB boost. So instead of 100 dB sensitivity they actually now have 106 dB as a pair.
Using my not-so-trusty brain to figure out that 1000 watts and 106 dB sensitivity comes out to 136 dB. Silly me...there's 2 cabinets, so they actually take 2000 watts...that puts the calculations at 139 dB...sorry about the mistake...it's 4 am.
The JBLs can handle 3200 watts program power, but any only 98 dB sensitivity it comes out to approximately 132 ish dB. I didn't do the exact math, so maybe it's 133, but it's in that neighborhood, and when you take in to account power compression...let's just say that 3200 watts could cook you a pretty thick steak, but 2000 might just cook a hamburger. All that wonderful power from your amps just warms the insides of your speaker cabinets...look here:
http://sound.westhost.com/articles/pwr-vs-eff.htm
edited for my bonehead forgetting that 2 growlers take 2000 watts
[Updated on: Sun, 16 December 2007 04:04]
-Richard Rajchel
http://www.coolwatersband.com
CD Duplication by Vector CDs
Riax Audio - Helping bands sound their best!
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| Re: Evan vs. the Growlers, round 1 [message #272764 is a reply to message #272722 ] |
Sun, 16 December 2007 10:57 |
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| Richard Rajchel wrote on Sun, 16 December 2007 05:01 |
The key though is that when you use 2 horn loaded cabs together they get a 6dB boost. So instead of 100 dB sensitivity they actually now have 106 dB as a pair.
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When you use ANY two cabinets together, within 1/4 wavelength of each other, and you also apply the same power to both of them, you get a 6dB increase in SPL. 3dB is from cabinet coupling, 3dB is from doubling the power (if you had an 8 ohm sub connected to an amplifier capable of delivering 1000 watts at 8 ohms, and you connect another identical sub to the same amp channel, the amplifier now provides 2000 watts into what is now a 4 ohm load to be "shared" by both subwoofers, so each still gets 1000 watts).
[Updated on: Sun, 16 December 2007 10:58]
-- Bennett Prescott
Director of North American Sales
EONA ADRaudio d.o.o.
Cell: (518) 488-7190
An amateur practices until they get it right. A professional practices until they can't get it wrong.
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